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Author Topic: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread  (Read 2419 times)

SIP

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #45 on: 30 April, 2019, 01:43:52 pm »
As an end (of sorts) to a series of films I thought it did a solid job. That was a lot to juggle and can not have been easy to put together.

As a "film" in and of itself, not so good.
Quite messy in parts and extremely continuity heavy. The less you know about all of the other films, the less you will get out of it. Many of the scenes will have no context for a significant part of the audience. Another big CGI battle at the end straight after infinity war? Unavoidable I guess but getting a little repetitive.

If I was a big marvel fanboy, though nowhere near as good as infinity war I think I would have been satisfied overall as a conclusion. As "fan-pleasing" goes, this went for the jugular.
« Last Edit: 30 April, 2019, 01:49:58 pm by SIP »

radiator

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #46 on: 30 April, 2019, 08:39:28 pm »
Today I learned Kevin Feige recruited the Russos after seeing the first paintball episode of Community

Yep. They've also been sweetly sneaking every regular character from Community into each MCU movie they've directed - Danny Pudi (Abed) had a cameo in Winter Soldier, Jim Rash (the Dean) was in Civil War(?), and Ken Jeong (Senor Chang) and Yvette Nicole Brown (Shirley) were both in Endgame.

IIRC Alison Brie (Annie) was also heavily rumoured for the Sharon Carter role in Winter Soldier (that eventually went to Emily Vancamp).

Quote
As a "film" in and of itself, not so good.
Quite messy in parts and extremely continuity heavy. The less you know about all of the other films, the less you will get out of it.

Hasn't this been the case for almost every Marvel movie since Civil War? I honestly can't really judge them as individual films any more - they are all essentially episodes in an ongoing TV show, and they generally all share the same strengths and weaknesses every time out, to the point where it's hardly worth mentioning any more.

Quote
I know there are probably a number of plot holes all over the place but I think it's better to just enjoy the experience

Yeah. Tbh in a film that has time travel and a magical Maguffin that can do literally anything it's a miracle the film is as cohesive as it is.

JOE SOAP

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #47 on: 30 April, 2019, 10:54:37 pm »
I believe Steve did go back to Peggy in the core timeline, hence his presence on the bench, but like I was saying upthread, maybe 15 years on from the crash of the Valkyrie. And yep, Bolt is right, that places 4 Steves in 2012.

Steve(s)'s paradoxical time-schmozzling looks like a set-up (or fudge).

In the end, Steve Rogers goes on a solo trip to restore the Infinity Stones from the other time dimensions to the moment they were taken, thereby bringing them back into alignment with the main timeline.

He also takes Thor’s Mjölnir hammer, though not necessarily as his own weapon. That has to be taken back to The Dark World era to set the timelines straight, too.

But then …he doesn’t come back. At least, not as we know him. He finds Peggy Carter and stays with her.

So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension?

The directors say it’s the latter.

“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”

The brothers smile.

“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”

There are other questions in this sequence that set up this future story…


https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

JOE SOAP

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #48 on: 30 April, 2019, 11:03:40 pm »
Quote
As a "film" in and of itself, not so good.
Quite messy in parts and extremely continuity heavy. The less you know about all of the other films, the less you will get out of it.

Hasn't this been the case for almost every Marvel movie since Civil War? I honestly can't really judge them as individual films any more - they are all essentially episodes in an ongoing TV show, and they generally all share the same strengths and weaknesses every time out, to the point where it's hardly worth mentioning any more.

Much more than any of the other films –even Infinity War– the Universe part of MCU is the raison d'etre of Avengers: Endgame (The clue's in the title).

I think most people who are seeing it early are at least familiar with that aspect of the franchise.


radiator

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #49 on: 01 May, 2019, 12:31:20 am »
I think the series that stands up the best as individual films in their own right are the Guardians films. I think pretty much anyone could watch and enjoy those completely divorced from the MCU (and that's partially why I think they're the best films in the entire MCU to date).

broodblik

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #50 on: 01 May, 2019, 05:40:01 am »

In the end, Steve Rogers goes on a solo trip to restore the Infinity Stones from the other time dimensions to the moment they were taken, thereby bringing them back into alignment with the main timeline.

He also takes Thor’s Mjölnir hammer, though not necessarily as his own weapon. That has to be taken back to The Dark World era to set the timelines straight, too.

But then …he doesn’t come back. At least, not as we know him. He finds Peggy Carter and stays with her.

So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension?

The directors say it’s the latter.

“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”

The brothers smile.

“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”

There are other questions in this sequence that set up this future story…


https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

I still feel that for me they have not really tough this trough. For me the biggest reason why I felt the movie was a disappointment was the nilly willy way they handled the time travelling aspect. With everything I have read and people trying to explain the events Infinity War could not have happened and certain other events as well. The timeline was altered in the future when Thanos was defeated. He never found the stones as simple as that

Bolt-01

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #51 on: 01 May, 2019, 08:21:20 am »
IMO:

When the Avengers staged the time heist they set off a branch from the main universe.
The Thanos that travels to the future was pulled there by the Nebula that travelled back with the Avengers.
So - in the branch of the universe where the stones came from Thanos disappears - allowing him to die in the same universe as that in which he was dispatched in the garden. That also explains how Nebula is still able to be alive. She did not kill her past self - only a version of herself from a different universe.


TordelBack

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #52 on: 01 May, 2019, 08:30:36 am »
The key point here is that time travel creates paradoxes, always, in every case. That's why it isn't real, and why it's so much fun.

To anyone thinking thar Engame means Thanos never got the stones, or that Nebula killed her past self and so shouldn't exist, I say you're talking about a violation of causality, and that's what time travel is.  The Avengers would never have travelled back in time if the Snap hadn't happened, therefore the Snap happened and has always happened: as Thanos says, he is inevitable. That's why they couldn't just go back and stop it, because then they'd never go back and it could never be undone.

It's a closed loop, a diversion, but it happened. It had to.


JamesC

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #53 on: 01 May, 2019, 09:11:36 am »
I didn't enjoy it very much unfortunately.
I'm not bothered about the intricacies of time travel, I just thought the characters weren't very well handled.
Smart Hulk being 'the best of both worlds' takes away everything interesting about the character and Comedy Thor had me rolling my eyes. The comedy wasn't funny generally (the Hulk/stairs joke was lame).
The film was too cluttered with rubbish second stringers. Does anyone care about Sam Wilson, Rhodey or Scarlett 'dull as dishwater' Witch? And I never want to see Iron Gwyneth ever again.
I'd have liked more from Captain Marvel though.
The end of the film eulogising was pretty painfull too. I genuinely think it would have been better if the film ended on the battlefield.

I may well enjoy it more on a second viewing (which is often the case) but my initial feeling is disappointment.


credo

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #54 on: 01 May, 2019, 10:52:10 am »
Loved it, loved it, loved it!

It took the MCU (mainly Guardians, Black Panther and Infinity War) to get me into any superhero comics, despite my love of tooth for over 30 years!

Was really glad the time travel thing didn't introduce any Back to the Future type shenanigans. I think the death of past Nebula was almost a deliberate demonstration of that.

But... Captain Marvel was really poorly served. That might have been the usual 'Thor problem' of dealing with a character with such huge powers, but it felt a bit more than that. Her arrival flying through Thanos' ship was one of my highlights of the movie, but it was almost like she should have been a victim of the snap. It was like they didn't get things organised to introduce her early enough to be in Infinity War and have that happen.

Everyone arriving through the portals was awesome.

Eternals for Phase 4 definitely has me hoping for some Celestials. I would love to see them take on Al Ewing's wonderful Ultimates storylines now that Captain Marvel and Black Panther are there (and there's the potential for Monica Rambeau).

wedgeski

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #55 on: 02 May, 2019, 04:14:55 pm »
Finally got to see this last night!

I was *slightly* disappointed. In itself, Endgame is an excellent film, but I felt it was a step down from Infinity War, which was in knock-it-out-of-the-park territory.

Perhaps it was because my own expectations were thwarted. I imagined the solution to the snap was going to lie in the Spirit Stone, which had perhaps in some fashion stored those who had been killed, or shifted them to the quantum realm, or something. The time-travel solution seemed second or third-tier. It gave us some nice moments, but it didn't mine the potential motherlode of the team interacting with their older selves, Back to the Future Part 2-style (aside from Cap's excellent self-pwn). When it was obvious they were pursuing it, I did for a second think that Marvel was going to next-level-genius the whole bloody lot of us by revealing hints from the earlier phases that this was always their plan. Alas, it seems even Feige couldn't see that far ahead, although I'd bet money that the next major arc *will* be planned out all the way to the end.

That said, there was so much to love. I might have had something in my eye when Tony bought it, and I definitely did have something in my eye when Cap got his dance (perfect). Stunning ageing on Chris Evans for those final scenes as well. Demi-Hulk tickled me a lot, and fat grizzly Thor was bloody hilarious. So many good ideas on-screen, and a cast more than happy to go with the flow.

Overall, bloody great cinema, just a bit of a 'meh' from me on the whole time-travel thing.

SmallBlueThing(Reborn)

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #56 on: 02 May, 2019, 04:50:42 pm »
Like a few here, while I didn't think it *quite* matched the sheer awesomeness of Infinity War, it was still just about as damn-near perfect as it's possible to be.
I have a few niggles, most of which have been mentioned elsewhere, so it seems churlish to bring them up again... but the one thing that *really* irked was Cap's swearing. What was up with that? That's a major character shift and I didn't feel it fully explained the whys and wherefores.
I've only seen it the once- I will go back- and maybe I missed something (having all six kids plus their various friends/ partners around does lead to attention being occasionally divided).
SBT

Mattofthespurs

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #57 on: 03 May, 2019, 03:12:47 pm »
Watched it again today in a deserted cinema and although I loved it the first time I enjoyed even more second time round.

No distracting rustling of popcorn, no end of people walking in front to go to the toilet and because I had already seen it once there were no surprises which meant I could look out for other stuff and just enjoy the nuances of the film.

Going back on Monday :)

The Legendary Shark

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #58 on: 03 May, 2019, 10:54:20 pm »
Saw it today.

Enjoyed it very much.

Looking forward to seeing it again.


Tiplodocus

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #59 on: 04 May, 2019, 01:42:33 am »
Tiny Tips thought it was awesome.

But asked why didn't Nebula warn Hawkeye and Black Widow about the cost of the Soul Stone? Or volunteer herself?
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