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Author Topic: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith Thread***  (Read 7564 times)

Richmond Clements

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #15 on: 22 May, 2005, 03:46:28 pm »
Along with showing us the dead children, I thought the scene where Obi Wan stands watching Annakin/Vader all but burn to death, was pretty powerful stuff.

Tordelbach

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #16 on: 22 May, 2005, 04:12:37 pm »
"...I thought the scene where Obi Wan stands watching Annakin/Vader all but burn to death, was pretty powerful stuff."

Actually, I could hardly believe that sequence was in the film... After tastefully barely showing us how Ben managed to trim those limbs, the slow-roasting of Anakin and subsequent no-anasthetic operation scene seemed a bit strong for what should be a kid's movie.  Top marks for both actors though, they FINALLY managed a bit of emoting.  

If I can bore everyone again with my renewed fanboy fervour, I loved the final and frankly unexpected distinction drawn between the Jedi and Sith -

Plagueis/Sidious learn to preserve/create *physical* life through the Force (I'm assuming that's how Palps both "conceives" Ani and later keeps his overdone-burger-self alive).  It's this holy grail of material immortality that drives Anakin, and Palps does deliver on his promise.

Meanwhile, Qui-Gon/Yoda learn how to preserve *spiritual* life.  "Luminous beings are we - not this crude matter", and later: "Master Yoda, you can't die!" - "Strong am I in the force, but that not that strong".  Tell it how it is, "my little green friend".  

I must tip my hat to Lucas for a surprisingly deep job of fannish ret-conning - it's not just the embarassing superficial chess-problem antics of "You go here, take him there, I go there, wipe his memory and we'll all meet up in 19 years time" - he actually seems to have tried to explain some of the core mysteries with direct reference to the previous work.  Yay!




Richmond Clements

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #17 on: 22 May, 2005, 04:23:10 pm »
I like that this sort of stuff is not explained ABC to the audience, but you have to work it out from listening to what people are saying.
Like the fact the Anankin was the choosen one, he did bring balance to the Force, just not in the way the Jedi Council had hoped.

Also, and I just figured this out this morning, Obi Wan lifting Vader's lightsaber from the ground after the fight. That's where he got it.

Tordelbach

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #18 on: 22 May, 2005, 05:12:13 pm »
Of course, in the short term he brings Balance to the Force (two Jedi left, two Sith left), but more importantly Anakin DOES eventually destroy the Sith, by ensuring that the last Master and last Apprentice died together.  As Qui-Gon would say, "be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the moment".

I was wondering if this is partly what Yoda is unknowingly articulating when he tells Luke that the Dark Side isn't stronger than the Light, it's just "...quicker, easier, more seductive".  The Light will triumph, it is just going to a very slow,  very, very hard road to travel.

Bico

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #19 on: 22 May, 2005, 06:55:16 pm »
Unfortunately, I thought the Anakin roasting was funny because up until that point, I'd been half-keeping in my head the idea that Hayden Thingy was just Harry Enfield's Kevin the Teenager.  When he shouted 'I hate you' at Obi-Wan, I laughed a bit and ruined it for myself.  But up until that point, it was good.
Did anyone else think that the Padwan that ran out to Anakin in the Jedi temple was possibly the worst child actor ever seen?

gnilleps

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #20 on: 22 May, 2005, 07:25:35 pm »
"Did anyone else think that the Padwan that ran out to Anakin in the Jedi temple was possibly the worst child actor ever seen?"

Up to that point I'd been really immersed in the sequence, the horrible realisation of what had to be done if Annakin was going to see through his decision. Then the child spoke and I was briefly pulled out of the story into unkind thoughts about how it couldn't have been THAT difficult to get one decent performance for one line, even from a child, about how the child was there to show us we should appreciate Jake Lloyd, then that obviously the child was there to to show how Hayden's Annakin was betraying and destroying everything that was good in him as a child, and so the child had to act like Jake's Annakin.

Then I got back into the film.

Which I loved.

Richmond Clements

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #21 on: 22 May, 2005, 09:23:20 pm »
I'm just back from seeing it again, and dammit you're right, that child was a bad actor.

Scottiepunk

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #22 on: 23 May, 2005, 02:41:49 am »
I've just seen it and it was f*cking awesome. The bit where Luke is handed over to Beru on Tatooine made my hair stand on end and that's no mean feat I can tell you! Lived up to all expectations and tied the saga up beutifully. I've got to say though that all the negatives that have been put forward by the boarders I can agree with and all the positives, but if you take it for what it is, a movie, it's awesome.

IndigoPrime

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #23 on: 23 May, 2005, 06:54:16 am »
:: f*cking awesome

Fucking awful more like. Still, at least that's it (until Lucas once more revives the franchise). If he does, here's hoping he gets in a half-decent writer (who understands the concept of characterisation and consistency), a dialogue writer (who actually understands how to write, erm, dialogue) and a decent director.

Funt Solo

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #24 on: 23 May, 2005, 07:47:10 pm »
One of the best parts of the whole experience was someone a few rows behind me exclaiming "The Emperor's forehead looks like an arse!"

Which, to be fair, it kind of did.
fate amenable to change

Funt Solo

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #25 on: 23 May, 2005, 08:12:56 pm »
Some thoughts:

The execution of the Jedi on "order 66" was an excellent montage of assassination:  the sci-fi equivalent of the Christening sequence from The Godfather where the heads of the five families are taken out.

The reasons for Anakin's turn to the dark-side were good and mirror events in The Empire Strikes Back, whilst neatly explaining exactly why Yoda and ghost-of-Ben are so loath to let Luke fly off to cloud city.  

However, even though the reasons are good (his love for Padme clouds his judgement to the extent that , in fact, he causes her death, rather than stopping it from happening) it was not well executed in the movie.  It happened too quickly.  He went from good guy to swithering guy to murdering children guy all too quickly.

On the murdering of the children:  I think this could have worked if (somehow) the children had threatened him first, or been in his way (perhaps protecting something or someone).

Obi-Wan is a right bastard.  There's Anakin, 3 limbs removed and half-melted.  Does Obi-Wan put him out of his misery?  No, he just buggers off and leaves him to a slow painful death.  Very Jedi.  This could have been avoided by bringing third parties (stormtroopers?) into play that forced Obi-Wan to abandon the nearly-dead Anakin.

Padme dies because she's "lost the will to live".  Lazy scripting spoken by a robodoc that is obviously way more advanced than the ones in the original trilogy.

R2-D2 has lots of special powers that he no longer possesses (or chooses not to use for no good reason) in the original trilogy.  That's just stupid.

The Frankensteing "building Vader" scene is really well done (especially as a juxtaposition to the birth of the twins) but then ruined by the "freeing arms by ripping bolts out" moment, which was clunky and trite in comparison.  

His "noooooooo!" isn't as good or as believable or as emotionally involving as Luke's "noooooooo!" in The Empire Strikes Back, whilst obviously emulating it.

The Wookiee war was fun, but there was no need to involve Chewbacca.  This constant "look, here's someone from the original trilogy:  that'll keep the older fans happy" tactic does not work.  It's just cheap and annoying.

Having said that, we did get to see a stormtrooper in camo.  For some reason he was talking to one with a speeder-bike helmet.  Cool.  I love all the variations on stormtrooper designs.

At the end of the day, this new trilogy has been created by a Lucas that has none of the talent, imagination and drive of the Lucas that made the original trilogy.  With large pinches of salt, and the ingestion of some horse tranquilisers for Episode I, this trilogy can be enjoyed.

fate amenable to change

James

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #26 on: 23 May, 2005, 11:55:59 pm »
"His "noooooooo!" isn't as good or as believable or as emotionally involving as Luke's "noooooooo!" in The Empire Strikes Back, whilst obviously emulating it. "

I can't help thinking instaead of the nnnnoooooo!!!(notice the multiple n's there, a staple for any kind of comic lettering, otherwise you're just saying noo only longer-anyway, after asking after Padme and being told that he'd killed her we should have a lingering shot of Vader's mask (with obligitory cracking bit of music) as he contemplates his actions, followed by a "So be it." emulating the Emperor in ROTJ, sealing his fate and future as lost completely to the dark side.

That's just my opinion though...

ukdane

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #27 on: 24 May, 2005, 12:29:10 am »
But he wasn't lost completely was he?

I thought they should have stopped the Vader transformation, when his helmet was lowered onto his head.
Cheers

-Daney



The Monarch

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #28 on: 24 May, 2005, 04:37:55 pm »
hold on Emperor pizza face concieved ani? how did i miss that?!?

Tordelbach

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Re: ***SPOILER-TASTIC Star Wars II...
« Reply #29 on: 24 May, 2005, 04:59:05 pm »
"hold on Emperor pizza face concieved ani? how did i miss that?!"

Matter of much never-to-be-resolved debate arising from the Opera Box conversaion, that.  The options are:

(1) Palpatine tries to con Ani into thinking he has "created" him thru persuading those pesky Midichlorians, using the teachings of his Master, Darth Plagueis (oh George, the names, the names..).

(2) Palpatine actually *DID* do this (my fave option!).

(3) Plagueis actually did it, and Palps is claiming the credit after offing him in his sleep...

The motivation is even more murky, but my bet is that Palps wanted to control the coming of the Chosen One, and thus direct the Prophecy to his own ends... I think it was a great fun idea, makes some sense of the Phantom Menace's hitherto bizarre Immaculate Comception/Midichlorians stylings, and was a great revelation that had me clutching Tordelgirl's arm overly tightly in the cinema.