Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 1352435 times)

TordelBack

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 26886
  • Thunder Chops is dragged off, gnashing...
    • View Profile
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17805 on: 25 November, 2020, 01:31:38 PM »
You're preaching to the choir re: taxation, my point was rather that if you were to successfully head down Sharky's alternative path this unfairness wouldn't be addressed for a long time, and while acknowledging the contradictions he raised,  I'm in the take-whatever-little-victories camp these days

Funt Solo

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7477
  • Liveware Problem
    • View Profile
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17806 on: 25 November, 2020, 03:08:26 PM »
Yeah, it's only fucking Voltaire again, innit?

Quote
Dans ses écrits, un sage Italien
Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.
++ logos ++ stages ++ coma ++

The Legendary Shark

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 9899
  • Tip: Sharks only attack you if you're wet.
    • View Profile
    • The Sharkpool Blog
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17807 on: 25 November, 2020, 03:26:58 PM »

I.P., it feels like every time I point out what I believe is a serious fault which is emblematic of the deeper systemic flaws, your counter- argument is something like, "Utopia is impossible so shut up."

Just because you don't like my solutions because we can't use them tomorrow or that they won't work in isolation (both of which points I agree with), that doesn't address my concerns. It would be as pointless as me calling you out on your "perfect government system" because I'm pretty sure you don't believe that any more than I believe in the "perfect anarchist system."

The basic problem, as I see it, is the system's monopoly on violence, of which mandatory, enforced taxation is a symptom. That's all. Agree with it or not. Solutions are a completely different conversation which we cannot have until we first recognise whether what I see as a problem actually is a problem, its extent and its consequences.

~~~^~~~~~~~

Be excellent to each other. And party on!

https://www.giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/the_legendary_shark


Blog.

Funt Solo

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7477
  • Liveware Problem
    • View Profile
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17808 on: 25 November, 2020, 03:41:12 PM »
To be fair, one might retort that whenever anyone mentions anything at all, however remote to the topic, you bang the drum for anarchy.

Women shouldn't be allowed to escape period poverty because ... anarchy is better? Or something.

Feel free to ignore me, though, because I feel like an idiot for biting. Again. (Not your responsibility how I feel, I know, I know.)
++ logos ++ stages ++ coma ++

The Legendary Shark

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 9899
  • Tip: Sharks only attack you if you're wet.
    • View Profile
    • The Sharkpool Blog
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17809 on: 25 November, 2020, 03:56:10 PM »

Guilty as charged.

But then... You seriously, I mean seriously, believe my argument is "Women shouldn't be allowed to escape period poverty"?

Well, I refute that position utterly.

~~~^~~~~~~~

Be excellent to each other. And party on!

https://www.giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/the_legendary_shark


Blog.

Funt Solo

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7477
  • Liveware Problem
    • View Profile
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17810 on: 25 November, 2020, 04:43:16 PM »
That's fair - you just said that it wouldn't be free.
++ logos ++ stages ++ coma ++

IndigoPrime

  • Administrator
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 9711
    • View Profile
    • http://www.craiggrannell.com
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17811 on: 25 November, 2020, 04:53:19 PM »
I think I just get triggered when arguments veer towards “I shouldn’t be compelled to pay for that” when it comes to progressive ideas and thinking. Ideally, people would do what’s necessary for a functioning society in which people aren’t left behind. I think we’re in agreement on that, TLS.

The Legendary Shark

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 9899
  • Tip: Sharks only attack you if you're wet.
    • View Profile
    • The Sharkpool Blog
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17812 on: 25 November, 2020, 04:53:43 PM »

It's cool.

I'll get the beers in.

~~~^~~~~~~~

Be excellent to each other. And party on!

https://www.giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/the_legendary_shark


Blog.

TordelBack

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 26886
  • Thunder Chops is dragged off, gnashing...
    • View Profile
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17813 on: 25 November, 2020, 05:10:30 PM »
One of the interesting truisms of the current covidfuck is the extent to which all systems depend FAR more on voluntary compliance than they do on coercion. It simply isn't possible for most states to enforce regulations that don't have broad support: even the Shark's implicit threat of violence needs the consent of a significant proportion of people to be enforceable.

Which is both hopeful for the future and depressing for the present, in roughly equal measure.

The Legendary Shark

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 9899
  • Tip: Sharks only attack you if you're wet.
    • View Profile
    • The Sharkpool Blog
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17814 on: 25 November, 2020, 05:30:13 PM »

Don't underestimate the power of the mainstream media on the masses. All that fear constantly pumping out has a widespread effect, on the spirit if not the mind - but I fear it's both.

When I was a teenager, I lived in a caravan in our back yard for a while. On about my third or fourth night in there, my Gran came rushing out in her dressing gown, in a right state. She was in fear for my life because the tv news had just reported that a murderer had escaped. In London (we live in Lancashire, between Southport and Preston). Televisual hyperbole overrode her own usually sound common sense. I've never forgotten that.

~~~^~~~~~~~

Be excellent to each other. And party on!

https://www.giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/the_legendary_shark


Blog.

TordelBack

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 26886
  • Thunder Chops is dragged off, gnashing...
    • View Profile
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17815 on: 25 November, 2020, 05:39:23 PM »
Televisual hyperbole overrode her own usually sound common sense. I've never forgotten that.

An ever-wider problem. But ultimately the same cognitive potential that allows people's minds to be manipulated by media also allows for people to change their own minds.

The Legendary Shark

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 9899
  • Tip: Sharks only attack you if you're wet.
    • View Profile
    • The Sharkpool Blog
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17816 on: 25 November, 2020, 06:03:26 PM »

Absolutely.

It's not the tool, it's how it's used.

~~~^~~~~~~~

Be excellent to each other. And party on!

https://www.giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/the_legendary_shark


Blog.

Funt Solo

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7477
  • Liveware Problem
    • View Profile
Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17817 on: 25 November, 2020, 09:03:14 PM »
Coming back over to recent discussions about creator rights (sparked by the always correct Mr. P. Mills of Europe Hulking out on his FaceTwatterSpace-igramTokTube), I noticed this article: Netflix removes Dave Chappelle's show after comedian's complaint, in which the creator signed a contract when desperate that they've now come to regret as it entirely disenfranchises them.
++ logos ++ stages ++ coma ++