Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: 1508 - Back In Black  (Read 8705 times)

Leigh S

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 5393
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #30 on: 03 October, 2006, 12:21:48 pm »
I'd agree that it didnt spoil the story for me - I like Dredds internal monologues - but I can see why they might be jarring for people, and the visualisation of them I think is maybe part of that problem

Byron Virgo

  • 2000AD Creator
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 4874
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #31 on: 03 October, 2006, 12:31:00 pm »
See, I think people who believe comics to be juveline do so purely because it involves both words AND pictures, and is something of a bastard medium. The inclusion (or lack thereof) of fluffy-coud thought bubbles is probably neither here nor there in their deliberations.

I don't have a problem with how they look myself - and I used to really hate the use of thought bubbles, but over the last few years I've really had my opinions turned round. I think it's just a question of WHEN they're used, and that they're used in the right manner - which, for the majority of their usage in the past, they weren't (usually just used for needless exposition along the lines of ">CHOKE!< HE'S BEATING ME INTO A BLOODY PULP -- WITH MY OWN ARMS!")

Banners

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3560
    • View Profile
    • Apt
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #32 on: 03 October, 2006, 12:33:29 pm »
Not bothered about the thought bubble but two uses of the awful "wild goose chase" cliche is surely worth a stretch in the cubes for the Wagner droid?

Loved the centre spread - good on yer, Rufus. What a wonderful gesture and representation of the great 2000AD spirit we're all a part of.

M@

Steve Green

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 8406
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #33 on: 03 October, 2006, 12:38:53 pm »
Lovely prog overall, great art on the FS, reminded me of a tighter version of Mark Harrison's work on the Ten Seconders.

A worthy tribute to Tom Frame, that must have been an almighty task sorting that out. Good work fellas to all involved.

Cheers

Steve

ming

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3494
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #34 on: 03 October, 2006, 12:46:06 pm »
Top Prog this week.

Cover is fine, but with three (count 'em!) new stories inside, I didn't linger too long...

In the beginning there was Dredd.  The Mad Max 2 scenes continue.  I'm surprised that Dredd got sidetracked in the first place, but it did help set the scene for what is to come (more muties, mutations and atom war recriminations).

Chiaroscuro.  The trailer didn't give anything away and I'm completely in the dark about the direction this may take, which is fine by me - I like surprises!  This is nasty and very dark, though I suppose that's the whole point, isn't it?

Centrespread is just fantastic, and it's great that so many people put time aside to contribute to this.  Very much looking forward to seeing more of the individual contributions, Rufus!

The 86ers is back, and this seems a good start.  I think a re-read of the previous outings is in order soon.  The appearance of the raider at the end reminded me of that Battlestar Galactica episode, Scar (if anyone's seen it), but not in a bad way.

Sinister-but-no-Dexter I like the change in art on this (not that I have any problems at all with Simon Davis) and if Finny shaved his head he'd look like Mr. X, whic is no bad thing in my book. I'm happy to see half of our favourite pair of gunsharks back in the Prog after a successful coup with Malone, and although Jim's probably right about Ray, I still think their days are numbered.

Now that's what I call a Future Shock!  Great story, great art, great twist, and with great use of the back page.  More like this, please.

Jim_Campbell

  • 2000AD Creator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12336
  • Letterer to the Stars! (and PJ)
    • View Profile
    • deviantArt Gallery
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #35 on: 03 October, 2006, 12:47:17 pm »
"I'd agree that it didnt spoil the story for me - I like Dredds internal monologues - but I can see why they might be jarring for people, and the visualisation of them I think is maybe part of that problem"

FWIW, I've never like thought balloons. This one jars particularly because earlier in the same episode, Wagner has used the (far more effective, IMO) device of relating Dredd's thoughts in the third person via a caption.

I don't think we're supposed to get inside Dredd's head the way we are with, say Peter Parker. It's entirely in keeping with the nature of Dredd to have what little insight we do get into him relayed third person.

In fact, I think it's the fact that Dredd does so little first person narration or internal dialogue that made that opening of 'America' so thrilling:

"Let me tell you where I stand ..."

There's nothing you can do with thought balloons that you can't do with narrative captions, even multiple firsts if you need 'em (see the Miller/Sienkiewicz 'Elektra' series for a fine example).

So ... no reason why that thought balloon couldn't have been a caption:

"One gone. How many more before they found Fargo ...?"

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Byron Virgo

  • 2000AD Creator
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 4874
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #36 on: 03 October, 2006, 01:10:18 pm »
"no reason why that thought balloon couldn't have been a caption"

There's one big reason - that's not how Wagner wrote it.

Trout

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13390
  • "Because I hate you."
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #37 on: 03 October, 2006, 01:29:14 pm »
The tribute is incredible. It was very moving, especially that so many big names contributed.
(Extra thanks for doing a key. I thought we were going to have to spend aaages online listing everyone who took part!)

As for the rest of the prog, Dredd is still 10 out of 10 and unparalleled in the history of human existence, etc...

Of the rest of it, the Future Shock was the best thing in the prog. Nice work.

- Trout

Jim_Campbell

  • 2000AD Creator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12336
  • Letterer to the Stars! (and PJ)
    • View Profile
    • deviantArt Gallery
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #38 on: 03 October, 2006, 01:29:46 pm »
"There's one big reason - that's not how Wagner wrote it."

Well, pendatically, I should point that that's the reason why it isn't a caption. It's not a reason why it couldn't have been a caption.

'The Connection' made good use of the third-person caption device, and it's here again in this very episode.

As I said, I really can't stand thought balloons, so I'm probably over-sensitive on the issue.

Cheers!

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Trout

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13390
  • "Because I hate you."
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #39 on: 03 October, 2006, 01:32:20 pm »
pendatically

Campbell is a swinger!

- Trout

Tiplodocus

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 6923
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #40 on: 03 October, 2006, 01:41:24 pm »
Enjoyed the Prog - not much to add apart from I didn't think hints and wrinkles on the Future Shock (fully realised world, hero NOT being greedy) were enough to set it apart from any number of standard "Oh my God, my folly has doomed mankind" stories. And it was, effectively, five pages of talking heads.  Which means the art must have been grand to impress so many of us.

Dredd just felt really clunky to me - I like the concept of CONNECTION and ORIGINS but so far my socks have remained fully intact - not a hint of high explosive anywhere near them.

I like Ant Wills art most of the time so I like it on Sin/Dex.  The only good twist from this whole thing would be if Ray really was dead.

Si's filmy thing is a good laugh though - I don't reckon much to his lead character's skills as a researcher though - he goes to interview someone without knowing of previous names etc.  Maybe Trout or one of our other journo types can say whether that's likely or not.  But that's a minor quibble - I think it's a great story so far.  Anybody else think Smudge's nice greyscales are hiding some sins in the basic art underneath?  The faces seem a little flat aat times and there's some odd bits of elongated anatomy going on.  But the overall effect is still quite pleasing.

86ers - good start and some atmospheric colours on PJs nice art. It is very Battlesatr Galactica feeling isn't it. (As an aside, I saw the first episode I considered to be entirely duff last night - Xena comes on board as a reporter and everyone leanrs to love the nasty military. Odd, I always see America as the Cylons).

Centre spread was very nice and a fitting tribute to a gentleman and a Droid who, like a brilliant special effects technician, did his job so well you weren't aware of his craft.  

Be excellent to each other. And party on!

Jim_Campbell

  • 2000AD Creator
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12336
  • Letterer to the Stars! (and PJ)
    • View Profile
    • deviantArt Gallery
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #41 on: 03 October, 2006, 02:08:13 pm »
"Campbell is a swinger!"

Har Har.

Y'know, I'm really missing that little 'Preview' button that you used to get before posting, but which seems to have disappeared in the Great Board Meltdown of 06 ...
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Byron Virgo

  • 2000AD Creator
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 4874
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #42 on: 03 October, 2006, 02:08:52 pm »
"I didn't think hints and wrinkles on the Future Shock (fully realised world, hero NOT being greedy) were enough to set it apart from any number of standard "Oh my God, my folly has doomed mankind" stories."

It was a lot better than a lot of stories that have seen print in the past, or that I used to recieve (or write) when I was script ed over at FutureQuake.

Trout

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 13390
  • "Because I hate you."
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #43 on: 03 October, 2006, 08:37:44 pm »
Si's filmy thing is a good laugh though - I don't reckon much to his lead character's skills as a researcher though - he goes to interview someone without knowing of previous names etc. Maybe Trout or one of our other journo types can say whether that's likely or not.

Ha! Like any other job, sometimes people are lazy. You can, of course, do your job better with some research, but it's not unlikely some people would not.
Also, this is a secret the guy's been keeping, so there's no guarantee anyone would have known.

I'm enjoying Chair-scario so far. It's different enough from the usual 2000ad story to work well in the comic's anthology format.

- Trout

nick-is-at-home

  • Member
  • Page Numbering Droid
  • **
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: 1508 - Back In Black
« Reply #44 on: 03 October, 2006, 09:12:27 pm »
sozzers

i  thought you knew that for a fact and werent just speculating