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Author Topic: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wastes of Time  (Read 4357 times)

Robin Low

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Timeline Nonsense and Other Wastes of Time
« on: 18 January, 2008, 09:41:33 pm »
I was reading various articles on Wikipedia connected with timelines and so on (interesting unsourced statements and odd interpretations), but I was interested by the following in the Durham Red entry:

"The Strontium Dog stories Red originally appeared in have since been deemed non-canonical, as part of Johnny Alpha's revival. This leaves Red in an unusual position in terms of continuity. The original Strontium Dog stories have been reclassified as tellings of the legend of Johnny Alpha, while the current stories are the "truth". As such, it is possible that the whole Durham Red saga spins off from events that never actually happened in the Strontium Dog universe."

Since when have the Durham Red stories "been deemed non-canonical"? I can understand people saying the Strontium Dogs stuff never happened, but Bitch?

Also, I noted in '2000 AD crossovers' timeline that John 'Giant' Clay dies in 2126. It's unreferenced - does anyone have any ideas where that one came from?

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Robin

Steve Green

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #1 on: 18 January, 2008, 10:11:45 pm »
The Giant death comes from a 'Whatever happened to...' story in the Meg, drawn by Rufus.

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Floyd-the-k

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #2 on: 18 January, 2008, 11:42:36 pm »
perhaps there's a UN committee full of time-line nurks and continuity dingbats which does the deeming and takes responsibility for this stuff

Robin Low

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #3 on: 19 January, 2008, 09:12:46 am »
"perhaps there's a UN committee full of time-line nurks and continuity dingbats which does the deeming and takes responsibility for this stuff"

If there is, then I'm annoyed they haven't spoken to me, as I'm one of the bigger nurks and dingbats in this field.

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Robin

Robin Low

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #4 on: 19 January, 2008, 09:15:27 am »
"The Giant death comes from a 'Whatever happened to...' story in the Meg, drawn by Rufus."

Thanks for that, Steve.

Regards

Robin

Steve Green

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #5 on: 19 January, 2008, 10:08:30 am »
No problem Robin,

maybe you could be some shadowy Blofeld-like figure causing misery to the timeline police :)

I don't see why Red is deemed non-canonical, it's far removed from Strontium Dog by the time it gets to the Scarlet Cantos.

I guess it's the confusion of the Kreeler Conspiracy, which is the odd-one-out.

I've always read it that the post-Kreeler Stront stories have all been set somewhere before the Ragnarok Job, and everything else still plays out as before, but I don't think it's been made clear if that is the case.

Where it does conflict (if you're that way inclined), is if you want to tie it in to the Nemesis timeline, you have to explain how Earth/Terra gets lost, then pops back again for when Nemesis and the ABC Warriors arrive at the end of the world. (Depending on whether Scarlet Cantos takes place after Nemesis - or not, reading the Nemesis TPBs, the machine creatures are from alternate realities, so you could place Nemesis hundreds of years in the future rather than thousands)

Handily there is the black hole bypass :)

And yes, I am bored waiting for some work to finish rendering...

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Dark Jimbo

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #6 on: 19 January, 2008, 10:10:24 am »
Since when have the Durham Red stories "been deemed non-canonical"?

Never, as such - but the justification for the new Stront stories being, more or less, that they were the 'truth' about Johnny, while the old tales were legends that had built up around him after his death, means that all the original apperances of and references to Durham are now part of the 'legend' sequence, meaning potentially they never happened.

Personally, I'm inclined to believe that these newer tales are simply untold stories slotting into the original continuity anywhere between 'Portrait' and 'Max Bubba', so it's not a big problem for me.

Floyd-the-k

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Morrison's Doom Patrol
« Reply #7 on: 19 January, 2008, 11:02:39 am »
I've just read two books of this.  Sometimes it seems to be trying much too hard to be cool and clever, other times it seems quite special. I really liked the ending to 'The painting that ate Paris'.  I also like some of the super-characters he comes up with (like the woman who has every super power you haven't thought of). Than again, it makes me wish I were reading Alan Moore, who does that kind of thing much better.

what do the rest of you think?

Robin Low

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #8 on: 19 January, 2008, 12:15:06 pm »
"I don't see why Red is deemed non-canonical, it's far removed from Strontium Dog by the time it gets to the Scarlet Cantos."

As for myself, I accept Alan Grant's Durham Reds and the post-Alpha Strontium Dogs by Ennis and especially Hogan as continuity, but none of the Dan Abnett stuff. For all that may or may not be good about Abnett and Harrison's series, they feel so far removed from the character and the original setting that any connections seems irrelevant.

Regards

Robin

Robin Low

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #9 on: 19 January, 2008, 12:25:04 pm »
"Personally, I'm inclined to believe that these newer tales are simply untold stories slotting into the original continuity anywhere between 'Portrait' and 'Max Bubba', so it's not a big problem for me."

I agree. I think some people latched on to the idea that The Kreeler Conspiracy was the start of a true retelling of the Johnny Alpha story, and failed to realise the idea was abandoned immediately after.

Regards

Robin

Mardroid

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #10 on: 19 January, 2008, 02:31:12 pm »
Thing is even if the earlier stories of Strontium Dog should be considered part of the legend of Johnny Alpha built up later, that doesn't mean some of the stuff didn't happen, (from the point of view of the new stories I mean.) since the legends are based on something.

Perhaps some of the stuff relating to Durham Red in that period fits in that category... subject to interpretation where the post Johny Alpha events surround her are concerned of course.

To be fair I haven't read much Strontium Dog (basically the small pieces on this site and the new stuff we're reading now),and no Durham Red at all so this is all speculation on my part.

Then of course we also have the cross-over stories with Stronty and Dredd. I haven't read those either but I assume they're set in the original Alpha stories too right?  Again there are contradictions in the time line (i.e. the  Mega Cities, 2 atomic wars, 2 sets of  mutants etc) although I imagine that could be explained via parallel universes etc.

JOE SOAP

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #11 on: 19 January, 2008, 05:17:46 pm »
Could be wrong? but isn't Johnny Alpha gone back to wearing one of his old 80's jackets in the Glum Affair

Robin Low

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #12 on: 19 January, 2008, 09:51:36 pm »
"Then of course we also have the cross-over stories with Stronty and Dredd. I haven't read those either but I assume they're set in the original Alpha stories too right? Again there are contradictions in the time line (i.e. the Mega Cities, 2 atomic wars, 2 sets of mutants etc) although I imagine that could be explained via parallel universes etc."

There aren't really any contradictions (apologies to those who've seen me go through this before).

Just because SD doesn't mention Mega-Cities on Earth doesn't mean they're not there, especially when the SD stories mostly are set off Earth. I recall that some cities/nations/regions are mentioned in the final colour episodes of Final Solution, but I don't remember any contrdictions.

Not sure what you mean by two atomic wars. Do you man the Great Atom War of 2070 begun by Booth and the Great War of 2150? No contradition here, given the dates.

Two sets of mutants? Episode two of Portrait of a Mutant states that "previous nuclear wars had created many mutations," so there's no problem here.

The biggest problem is, of course, the fact that New Britain doesn't appear anything like Brit-Cit. However, there's about 20 years between the current Dredd date and the start of SD continuity in 2150, so plenty of time for a regime change in Brit-Cit. (And I manage to slot Robo-Hunter in the gap, too.) What's more, Portrait of a Mutant also says that only 30% of the British population survives the Great War, which is likely to result in change in the previous power structure.

Regards

Robin

Tweak72

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #13 on: 19 January, 2008, 10:38:53 pm »
Here is my hat in the ring

Every SD story up to and including Johnny Alphas death = Cannon

Tales from the doghouse = also cannon.

1st Judge Dredd/Strontium Dog cross over Top Dog (Judge Dredd Annual 1991 so its actually a judge Dredd story) = Neeeeeever happened. I donâ??t give 2 tugs of a dead dogs c*ck what you say I thought it was utter rubbish then and I still donâ??t think it should have happened.

Judgement Day Cross over = art was brilliant but see above.

Current Strontium Dog stories. Are ok to read but I do not associate them with the Real Johnny Alpha. And thatâ??s because the first one I read I saw they had ripped off the Motherbox idea from New Gods and given loads of other extra gadgets that Johnny didnâ??t have in the original.

The nearest to accepting them I will go is that the new stories are a re imagining of SD. It worked with Dave Gibbons Rogue Trooper. Get JW and AG to start it all off again and get them to give parameters for the universe exactly how they wanted it. then give it to new writers to flesh out and if you then donâ??t make the same mistake that you did with Rouge Trooper/Friday (e.g. give it to a bunch of pillocks to ruin) then it should keep every one happy.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: Timeline Nonsense and Other Wa...
« Reply #14 on: 19 January, 2008, 11:17:03 pm »
"And I manage to slot Robo-Hunter in the gap, too"

I've never really understood that with your timeline stuff. Robo-Hunter is such a totally different world to Dredd and Strontium Dog that it just doesn't 'fit' for me, in any way, shape or form.