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Author Topic: How Would You Bring It Back?  (Read 3289 times)

Eric Plumrose

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #30 on: 24 April, 2008, 12:41:12 AM »
>> Time-Lords: No thanks. Smartest thing RTD did was ditch 'em.

If only he had. Unfortunately, Ecclestone's second episode needlessly explained everything.

>> Just a thought, but how about an episode set entirely on board the TARDIS? It's not been done . . .

Yes it has, but not since 1964.
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Tu-plang

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #31 on: 24 April, 2008, 01:01:57 AM »
I'd like the reintroduction of some things from the novels, like:

the Butterfly Room - the 'hillside' room in the TARDIS
Iris Wildthyme - the Doctor's female equivalent, whose TARDIS is the No. 22 bus to Putney Common and slightly smaller on the inside.
the Faction Paradox - time travelling rogues causing temporal impossibilities for their own ends.

Cthulouis

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #32 on: 24 April, 2008, 01:32:47 AM »
I really liked the first season of new who. They did just what I hoped they would, take all the best bits of old who and stick them all together in one series.

The problem comes when you try to make a second series; you are left with the second best bits, and as such the series will be second rate.

The second series suffered incredibly badly because of this, as it showed how little old who was actually good. Fans always trundle out the old favorites, but they are the few gleaming moments in a big stinking turd.

The fact that the second series used the cybermen as their flagship villains is a good example of this. Fan memory regards the cybermen as the second best baddies behind the daleks. Yet there have never been any good cyberman stories. There are stories that the fans love, but only because of their misconception that the cybermen are good. If you replaced them with "Unbranded Cyborgs", then they would be recognised for the rubbish they are.

The writers of series two seem to have realised this. Where for the Dalek episodes they just copied and pasted together previous dalek moments,  when they tried this with the cybermen they could not find anywhere near enough cool moments. As such they thinly disguised some more Dalek moments, then gave up altogether and just brought back the daleks.


The first series, to me, was a briliant introduction to Who, a showcase of the "light hearted fun that you shouldn't think too much about" that who always has been, on the rare occasions that it has been good.

The second series was a display of what most of the rest of who was like.

The third series is where we really see them needing to try and update the concept, as they are running out of stuff to pinch, with varying success.

Now, people have been known to point out that "They got away with it in the old days" isn't an excuse for new who being shit. It might not be an excuse, but it is a reason. If you want Who to be the same show it was before, then it will be shit. If you want it to be different, then you don't want Doctor Who.

The two episodes that most people claim are really good are "the girl in the fire place" and "Blink". Now, first off, if these two episodes were in any other "Good Cult Show" they would not have been lauded as much as they have been. These shows aren't "awesome", they are of the standard most other shows reach without breaking sweat, they only look amazing when compared with the rest of the series.

I think one of the reasons they are so highly regarded is that they are not instantly recognisable as a rip off of what has come before.

So... in answer to the question how would I bring it back?

Well, if I want a light hearted family entertainment, then I would do what they did with the first season, but try to continue that feeling through the other series as well.

If I want something better, I wouldn't bring it back, I would make something new (not torchwood)

Eric Plumrose

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #33 on: 24 April, 2008, 01:35:55 AM »
Responses to the above post belong in an altogether different thread.
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Thursday

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #34 on: 24 April, 2008, 02:02:18 AM »
I'm not sure about giving the Doctor a mission or a specific purpose; I've always really liked the idea that he's just wandering around the universe more or less at random.  He's seeing the sights, taking in what the cosmos has to offer, and generally trying to stave off the bordeom and ennui that'd come from being a centuries-old immortal.  I think it'd lose something if he was carrying out specific missions and acting on someone's orders - that just seems less like Doctor Who and more, say, TimeCop.  

(Disclaimer: my Who-based experience basically consists of New Who, a handful of episodes with Ace in, and a couple of the books.  This may well be colouring my perceptions of who the Doctor is and how he should act)

Of course, you might have to explain why all his apparently-random destinations are inevitably beset by peril as soon as he arrives.  You could simply say the universe is a dangerous place, or that we're only seeing the interesting bits.  If you wanted something more then the mere suggestion of some larger purpose could be a big plot point if done properly - tie this in with DumbLad's idea of sparing references to the Timelords and the Doctor's habit of never quite admitting or denying his nature, and you could have some quality mystery on your hands.  

And Proudhuff's random-interior-Tardis would be the dog's proverbials.  Possibly quite literally, given the malfunctioning chameleon doodah.

Noisybast

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #35 on: 24 April, 2008, 08:45:55 AM »
"Yes it has, but not since 1964."

I know that. That's why I went on to say "in New Who".

TordelBack

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #36 on: 24 April, 2008, 02:48:14 PM »
Iris Wildthyme - the Doctor's female equivalent, whose TARDIS is the No. 22 bus to Putney Common and slightly smaller on the inside.

This I like the sound of!  

I am however implacable opposed to giving the Doctor a 'purpose' of any kind.  Different incarnations have slightly different interests and that's the way it should stay.

Cthulouis

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #37 on: 24 April, 2008, 02:54:07 PM »
Damn, it was a late night last night when I typed that last post. Most of the time when I feel like my opinion is worth listening to here i'm either a little tipsey or completely knackered, so my views always come across very badly.

So, I just thought I might clarify a few things that  seem a bit caustic towards old who.

I really like old who, which didn't come across in the previous post. This doesn't mean I can't see it's flaws. I like fish and chips too, but I would not class them as "Good Food". They do however hit the spot when you want them. In the same way, when I say old who is shit, I mean it isn't the greatest, deepest work of literature ever. Nor should it be, that isn't the aim, it's aim is to entertain.

The problem is that so many people seem to want it to be something really amazing, in a very different way to what it was before. To which I say, why bother calling it Who? Why not make something new?

The great thing about Who is that at it's roots, there is a guy with a time machine, oh, and he has a few mates on board for the ride. This is the format that they have gone for, and as such, I think it works.

Except, it doesn't always. They increasingly rely on past glories. This is not a problem, as long as those glories are real glories, and not hazy fan nostalgia. I will stand by my comments concerning the cybermen.

Old who had this problem too. Pyramids of Mars is a great story because it is something nice and new. Sure there are a whole stack of inspiration sources, but if I say "The one with the mummies", you know what I mean. If I say "The one where Cybermen attack a spaceship",  that fits a lot more stories.

Now, old Who is so old they can get away with repeating the old stuff in the new. The problem comes from the fact they have already started repeating the new. The first time they ran the "Human factor" Dalek story, I liked it. After the second time I'm kinda hoping they don't do it again, but have a horrible feeling they will.

Also, there are problems with how they are doing it, but not in the format, just in the quality. I don't expect too much, I just expect more than the doctor just winning for no apparent reason other than we've reached the end of the episode and the doctor needs to win now.

So how would I bring back the show?

1. Keep the format the same: dude in a box, pootling around space, it is a great concept! If you want a different concept, watch something different.

2. Only relive glories if they are really really good. And only relive them once, let us see repeats through DVD's, not new episodes.

3. Make sure there is lots of new stuff. Really new stuff. Different stuff each story.

4. Make sure the writing is good.

Hopefully that run through of my thoughts makes me seem a little less like a jerk.

The Amstor Computer

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #38 on: 24 April, 2008, 04:58:45 PM »
You didn't seem like a jerk in the first place, so I wouldn't worry :-)

I tend to agree with a lot of what you said, although I'm a little more positive about the great/dodgy ratio in Old Who, and that's coming from someone who grew up on McCoy and came to the previous Doctors from an adult perspective, unclouded by nostalgia for episodes from my youth.

I also think there's plenty of room in the show for more intelligent exploration of themes than "LOL - you buy clothes made in sweatshops â?? youâ??re just as bad as these spacehumans with their tentacle-faced, lobotomised slaves!". Serials like "The Green Death" and "The Silurians" managed something a bit more challenging than that for a teatime audience 30 years ago; I don't see why I shouldn't expect the same or better from the series today.

I also think the current format - largely made up of 45 minute shows with A couple of 90 minute episodes thrown in to the mix  - is at least partly responsible for many of the problems I have with the show. When you have just 40-something minutes to introduce this weekâ??s setting, establish whatever it is that the Doctor will have to tackle, resolve that and wrap up the story, it doesnâ??t leave an awful lot of time for development of other characters, or themes or often simply to resolve things in a believable way.

TordelBack

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #39 on: 24 April, 2008, 06:38:40 PM »
When you have just 40-something minutes to introduce this weekâ??s setting, establish whatever it is that the Doctor will have to tackle, resolve that and wrap up the story, it doesnâ??t leave an awful lot of time for development of other characters, or themes or often simply to resolve things in a believable way.

S'right - a few more 'serials' thrown in would help give proceedings some welcome depth.  But I also remember the abject horror of week after week of Bertie Bassett or the Bannermen - how much nicer if they could have been dismissed with a simple: "well, this week's was shee-ite, hope next week's is better".

The Amstor Computer

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #40 on: 24 April, 2008, 10:13:50 PM »
S'right - a few more 'serials' thrown in would help give proceedings some welcome depth. But I also remember the abject horror of week after week of Bertie Bassett or the Bannermen - how much nicer if they could have been dismissed with a simple: "well, this week's was shee-ite, hope next week's is better".

Mm, that is a problem. TBH, if it was up to me, I would make two-parters the standard, with one- or three-parters being the exception for stories that warranted it.

The last thing I'd want to see is a War Games-length version of Love & Monsters...

Eric Plumrose

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Re: How Would You Bring It Back?.....
« Reply #41 on: 26 April, 2008, 10:46:53 AM »
>> I know that. That's why I went on to say "in New Who".

That'll teach me to read using beer-frothed glasses.
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