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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 761762 times)

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14190 on: 09 May, 2018, 12:18:31 pm »
Well, quite. Employment levels mean naff-all when you're basically removed entirely from the system after a set point, or forced into zero-hour contracts. But my point about jobs was really about the future. When you have the Japanese being as brazen as they are – which basically never happens – you know something's up. (Their take: Thatcher promised the UK would always be in the internal market. We're off and taking our jobs with us if it turns out you lied. And they're far from the only ones. But, hey, I'm being battered on Twitter right now by Corbyn supporters who still claim he's "canny" and in favour of remain, let alone the internal market.)

Tjm86

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14191 on: 09 May, 2018, 01:06:03 pm »
The other issue that I have with unemployment figures is that they never show regional variation.  You also have the issue of quality of jobs that is rarely if ever mentioned.  It's not just zero hours contracts mind.  How many folks are no longer unemployed because they have been reclassified as 'self employed' or 'entrepeneurs' running businesses that don't even earn them the minimum wage? 

Plus we still have the, far less reported now, hounding of folks on disability.  The Rochdale Herald regularly runs articles with headlines like "Prince Philip cleared by ATOS as fit for work" with the names of terminally ill or even deceased substituted in.

Now in the latest wheeze the government wants to tap 'silver strivers' for NIC.  Enough of these are folks working to make ends meet since their pensions are not up to snuff (so much for baby boomers enjoying all the benefits there) but hey, they won't mind losing a few more quid a week to balance the books.

And we haven't even left the EU yet.

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14192 on: 09 May, 2018, 01:59:01 pm »
because they have been reclassified as 'self employed' or 'entrepeneurs' running businesses that don't even earn them the minimum wage?
And will soon be royally fucked by the government forcing everyone to do tax returns four times per year instead of once. (When I wrote to the minister about that, complaining about the fact this will cost me a ton of money, he merrily replied the it shouldn't because "everything is automated these days". Tell that to my fucking Excel spreadsheet, you arsehole.)

As for all of the other points: yep.

Tjm86

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14193 on: 09 May, 2018, 03:37:12 pm »
Everything is automated?  Then HMRC need to seriously sort out their lives and their IT systems.  I think the only organisation that has them beat on customer dissatisfaction at the moment is TSB (IIRC that stands for Totally S****y Bank).

Certainly sounds like your MP is automating it's responses  (not a Tory perchance?).

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14194 on: 09 May, 2018, 04:00:53 pm »
Tory MP and Tory minister. The latter's dismissal of my concerns because accounts are all automated these days really pissed me off. His argument was I should be hurling all my details into some magical number-crunching system. Instead, I have an accountant, whose fees already swallow up something like 2% of my annual income. I can't really afford for that to ramp up significantly.

Tjm86

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14195 on: 09 May, 2018, 09:15:15 pm »
This is where I have one of a number of problems with the current self employed / entrepeneur culture; the amount of money most make on these 'business' ventures barely qualifies for tax of NIC.  It's also worth bearing in mind that this means that such 'workers' are barely making enough to enable them to save for pensions.  Add in that some lunatics actually believe that it would be a good idea if more people had private medical care schemes.  I'm currently reading Alice in Wonderland to my youngest daughter whilst wondering if Lewis Carroll was not actually describing early 21st Century Britain.

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14196 on: 09 May, 2018, 09:25:52 pm »
This is where I have one of a number of problems with the current self employed / entrepeneur culture; the amount of money most make on these 'business' ventures barely qualifies for tax of NIC.  It's also worth bearing in mind that this means that such 'workers' are barely making enough to enable them to save for pensions.

Small entrepreneurs do it because they love it.  I know we'll all share the wealth when the LibDems take power and implement a communist state but until then stop squashing dreams, you lentil-eating anarchist.

Tjm86

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14197 on: 09 May, 2018, 09:55:38 pm »
Thank you sir for that tongue in cheek reply.  If I'm completely honest, this is where my divided loyalties lie.  On the one hand, that vision embodied in the entrepeneurial spirit but on the other the need for social responsibility.  Unfortunately this government has taken that rugged individualism and turned into something altogether unsavoury, as only a British tory government could do.

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14198 on: 09 May, 2018, 10:54:27 pm »
Much as I'd like to lay that at the Tories' door, the Western neoliberal consensus has led to a global sea change in recent years to vampire economies and the rise of shit like UBER where you put in all the risk and work of a small business, but a multinational corporation takes all your profit.

Steven Denton

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14199 on: 10 May, 2018, 11:15:44 am »
I’m not sure what the number of unemployed people is supposed to prove?

Record numbers of people in work in poverty and the huge bill for housing benefits for people in full time work who simply can’t afford to live would suggest that unemployment figures alone are not a suitable metric for either employment getting people out of poverty or off of benefits, or any particular positive social or anecdotal improvement. 

Using unemployment as a KPI for the economy is like using the amount of CRT TV’s being repaired as a KPI for their current build quality. (CRT’s aren't breaking down at anywhere near the same rate as they did in the 70’s and the 80’s if you go by the numbers being fixed by repair shops so they must be super reliable now)

Hawkmumbler

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14200 on: 10 May, 2018, 11:23:48 am »
Indeed. I've been made redundant twice this year by companies employing me on zero hour contracts, one working me ludicrous overtime on pain of losing my job only to sack me at the end of my provisional period so as not to give me the mandatory pay rise, and another using me to fill in a few hours a week between other staff who, quiet frankly,m did a shiter job than I. Again, sacked because they would have to raise my pay.

Employment figures are bust because they don't factor in for those trapped in poor contracts, zero hours, on or bellow minimum wage, work hours that skirt the legal requirements, and in general just mug those in vulnerable positions.

Leigh S

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14201 on: 11 May, 2018, 04:43:05 pm »
There is Zero unemployment in the workhouse!

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14202 on: 11 May, 2018, 04:58:38 pm »
Or the graveyard.


Tjm86

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14203 on: 11 May, 2018, 10:12:32 pm »
This is why I have zero confidence in the so called 'unemployment' figures.  The situation has already once been compared to the 16th century and the quality of employment protection.  All this talk of the 'productivity problem' ignores the simple reality, very few employees have any faith in their employer to protect them.  The once sacred public sector is now as vulnerable as the private sector.  The result is obvious. 

When the public audit commission start raising concerns about how people that are allegedly self employed business owners are going to create a sustainable business you know that you are in trouble.  Unfortunately at present we have a government that has taken incompetence to a whole new level.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14204 on: 18 May, 2018, 04:46:43 pm »
A question for Scotch* boarders: if a Scotch* independence referendum happened again, post-Brexit, do you think it would have a different result? (Also, do you think a second referendum is likely?)

*Yes, Scotch. That's the correct word. Even my autocorrect has the word 'Scotchman'.
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”