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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 1106493 times)

sheridan

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15450 on: 25 February, 2019, 11:59:33 am »
I would be amazed if the Sun/Daily Mail doesnt have a headline/editorial calling on all Muslims to denounce Terrorism.  It's a crass and reductive argument whoever you use it against, so that doesnt give Hatton any kind of let off for using it.


They have before - usually after British muslim community leaders had already denounced whatever it was that the newspaper was propagandising about (but not reported on, as that wouldn't have fit with their narrative).

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15451 on: 25 February, 2019, 12:42:13 pm »
There's a story somewhere about the Sun's "1 In 5 UK Muslims Support ISIS" story, and how Yougov decided to take a pass on doing the polling once they discovered what the story was going to be.  Most people concentrated on the whole "GASP EVEN YOUGOV THOUGHT THIS WAS A BAD IDEA" angle, though in retrospect it's probably more worthy of note that the story's conclusions were in place before the polling that supported it was even commissioned.

Theblazeuk

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15452 on: 25 February, 2019, 01:02:22 pm »
plenty of commentators are bang-on in noting that Labour should have made the Corbyn shift all about policy rather than something closer in nature to a personality cult. It's become all about him, and that just doesn't work. And it's going to be a shit-show when he – through inaction or otherwise – helps May get Brexit through.

How could that ever happen? It's become all about him because every attack has been about him. It was Corbyn's fault that Remain lost. It was Corbyn's fault that they called a second leadership election within months of the first. Anyone who voted Corbyn was a cultist. An infiltrator. You retweeted the Green Party once? You clearly don't belong in Labour you marxist infiltrator.

You vote for Labour and you came to the party in the last few years? CORBYNISTA.

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15453 on: 25 February, 2019, 02:19:18 pm »
What's ironic is that the people screaming "personality cult" are just as guilty of it as the people they accuse.  Obsession doesn't necessarily mean being in love with a cult figure, it can just as easily spring from a relationship with someone you hate and it can make you just as delusional and immune to reason as people wearing white robes and banging tambourines.

For example: a lot of leftist Youtubers have just hosted mirrors of Big Joel's video essay "Anita Sarkeesian and the people who hate her", after the original was taken down by Youtube after alt-righters mass-flagged it*.  The video is quite interesting in that it examines two alt-right Youtubers (Thunderfoot and Sargon of Akkad) who usually have at least a passing acquaintance with the notion of showing their work and/or articulating an argument and how they singularly fail to do any of this when faced with the task of debunking the work of someone they clearly despise.  I feel this is a particularly germane example because Sarkeesian's relevance in media circles is arguably on the wane of late, but here her critics are magnifying her with a clumsy attempt at a takedown.


*Entirely coincidentally, this happened after an angry video response to the original vid was posted on Sargon Of Akkad's Youtube channel.

Hawkmumbler

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15454 on: 25 February, 2019, 02:23:14 pm »
Sargon of Akkad is the joke of the online community. The court jester unaware of his own insignificance yet quiet eager to make a fool of himself.

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15455 on: 25 February, 2019, 03:09:29 pm »
Our culture rewards and latterly monetises attention.  It's a mistake to outright dismiss the likes of Akkad when they have a large audience, a successful engagement strategy, and a viable platform - not least because their audience so often spews out spree killers.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15456 on: 25 February, 2019, 06:01:38 pm »
Well, this is going to put the cat among the cans of worms… Corbyn to back second vote.

Starmer has just clarified on Twitter that Labour is going to propose one more alternative deal and if that doesn't get passed, they'll back the Kyle/Wilson amendment that rules out 'no deal' and says May's deal goes to a referendum with 'Remain' as the other option.
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Tjm86

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15457 on: 25 February, 2019, 06:34:16 pm »

Yep - the biggest problem with Corbyn's communication skills is that he (or a friend) don't own a large multinational media empire feeding selected soundbites via newspapers, radio, the web and/or TV.  Before he was in the leadership campaign the only reason I knew who Corbyn was was because he was my MP - it was pretty surreal when he started appearing in the news.

See here is where I have a problem.  The old 'but the MSM aren't reporting' works up to a point.  As a Labour party member, I can count the number of emails I've had reporting his position on issues on the fingers of one hand.  MSM have been absolutely hammering him but those around him have resolutely failed to utilise alternative channels to get across 'his message'.  I'd almost be tempted to agree on the old 'MSM hold all the cards' trope except for the number of times the likes of Twitter, Facebook etc get quoted as 'sources'.  If the party machine cannot harness the power of social media to side-step the usual channels (which Obama seemed to in his campaigns) then they are either useless or inept.

It was Corbyn's fault that they called a second leadership election within months of the first.

Ironically enough 'paratrooper Smith' is our local MP.  I have to admit to having heard more from Corbyn than from him.  I think that leadership challenge was a serious case of hubris.  Allegedly he is considering his position in the party.  I think most locals are wondering whether or not he has left the country ...

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15458 on: 25 February, 2019, 07:49:01 pm »
The plan was never to present a serious challenger to Corbyn, the plan was to keep him off the ballot so that the only choice was between Blairites chosen by the PLP.  Once the courts ruled Corbyn was to be on the ballot, absolutely nobody expected Smith to win, and it said everything about the party's right wing that it still went through with the whole tedious panto when all it could possibly do was make things worse for them.

Leigh S

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15459 on: 25 February, 2019, 09:22:55 pm »
I'd forgotten that!  Do you think Corbyn has been waiting all this time until Chukka et al left before he could announce this, just for lolz?  Honestly, it always seemd the only path Labour could honestly take regards the 2nd ref - propose a Custom Union based deal that doesnt pander to the racists, and only then can you say Remain is better than the shit deal being foisted on us.

The plan was never to present a serious challenger to Corbyn, the plan was to keep him off the ballot so that the only choice was between Blairites chosen by the PLP.  Once the courts ruled Corbyn was to be on the ballot, absolutely nobody expected Smith to win, and it said everything about the party's right wing that it still went through with the whole tedious panto when all it could possibly do was make things worse for them.

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15460 on: 26 February, 2019, 12:06:29 am »
Corbyn clearly does not do the whole long game thing.  Not that he needs one with MPs whose only selling point was the Labour brand, as evidenced by the fact they're still using it when they are introduced as "ex-Labour MPs", and are still talking about Labour in interviews.
I think I realised the squitters were done when I spotted that Momentum had decided that they weren't worth their time after making a single diss vid last week, and have now settled for just accusing them of being the kind of people who order the lemon and herb chicken off the Nandos menu.  There's no Nandos where I live but I assume this is equivalent to going into a kebab shop and not getting spicy sauce.

Tjm86

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15461 on: 26 February, 2019, 09:24:31 am »
Actually, I think Nandos is the fast food equivalent of KFC for the 'up their own arse' set ...

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15462 on: 26 February, 2019, 09:29:09 am »
Well, it's all getting very interesting. Thornberry has been very clear about what she thinks everything means, even if that amusingly means it's a straight 180 from her very clear views last week – weather vane politics in action, but at least now pointing in the right direction.

Of course, what will actually happen now is May will come probably up with some half-arsed A50 extension plan that the EU cannot agree to (given that it won't come with an actual plan attached), and drive the UK off the cliff while blaming the EU. It's all up to MPs now to find their collective backbones. And it says a lot that TIG are now polling in the high teens, despite not actually having any policies, not being a political party, and only having a handful of members. Still, it seems likely they pushed Labour into acting, so that's good. (There are, natch, still Labour MPs today whining about the prospect of a second ref, despite all the evidence pointing to the majority of Labour voters, even in Labour seats, being pro-remain, and increasingly so as time moves on.)

Elsewhere, though, the Tories are attempting to out-arsehole themselves by firing Costa, who's had the sheer audacity to put forth an amendment that would ringfence the rights of EU nationals, and Brits abroad. (The Tories are saying this isn't compatible with his role. Presumably, this is shorthand for "being human is not compatible with being a Tory under May".)


Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15463 on: 26 February, 2019, 01:19:23 pm »
This probably isn't relevant but apparently some local gobshites recorded a version of Candle in the Wind called Nandos in the Bin, so I suspect I have managed to let some key element of UK culture pass me by entirely.  I didn't understand the tweet that read "Nandos is the Greggs of the political classes" but I am sure this is a very clever observation.

Theblazeuk

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15464 on: 26 February, 2019, 02:52:27 pm »
Quote
I'd almost be tempted to agree on the old 'MSM hold all the cards' trope except for the number of times the likes of Twitter, Facebook etc get quoted as 'sources

I mean, isn't this just coming back to the power of institutions to influence what you see even as we discuss an alternative medium? Alternative channels are how Corbyn etc has stuck around or get anywhere at all. 'Momentum' might be derided as a cult by everyone who obsesses over Corbyn but they turned social media reach into physical campaigning into actually getting people involved. The response was 'That's enough of that you mad cultists'.

Barely anyone still reads newspapers, they still absolutely dominate other forms of News and political debate.