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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 1248807 times)

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16785 on: 10 February, 2020, 02:41:15 PM »
The Healy-Raes are no fools, for all that they work to portray themselves as innocent toilers from the boreens of Kerry.  They know full well that the burden of climate change is going to fall heavily on the communities that keep re-electing their little tuath, and are positioning themselves (as usual) as protectors of the traditional man of the land being endlessly harried by the jet-setters and avocado-eaters of the Big Smoke (and there's some truth in that part at least). In reality the dynasty was founded in New York when Jackie married an American, their daughters are a barrister and a teacher: the whole circus is a wildly successful, utterly cynical, performance worthy of Synge or Boucicault.   

True. But it doesn't want me want to force feed them their own eyeballs any less. 
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

TordelBack

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16786 on: 10 February, 2020, 06:57:33 PM »
I genuinely can't get my head around the reaction of so many British commentators to SF's success. SF have been repeatedly elected to Westminster, the NI Assembly and the Dáil: this just a matter of degree in the context of a decade-long  government presiding over accelerating neo-liberal misery.

It's 20 years since the GFA. When they were actively apologists for terrorism, they couldn't get a whiff of a vote in the Republic (to our credit). Now we've had (relative) peace for decades, and the old and tainted leadership has shuffled off, is the first time they've enjoyed large-scale success. Isn't thst a good thing? Isn't that how peace works?

They aren't my cup of tea, or my voting preference, but have a listen to Mary Lou McDonald or (better yet) Eoin O'Broin.  These are proper democratic politicians offering the usual political promises, not the bloody Provisional IRA in a suit - anymore than Fianna Fail are DeValera's anti-Treaty IRA of 1922, or Fine Gael are the murderous pro-Treaty National Army or Cumann nGaedheal's fascist bodyguards the Blueshirts.

The lesson of history is surely that you have to move the feck on.

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16787 on: 10 February, 2020, 07:26:40 PM »
Yes, but this isn’t a lesson Brits appear to have learned, hence Brexit.

JOE SOAP

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16788 on: 10 February, 2020, 07:42:44 PM »
If the ancien régime continue to marginalise Sinn Féin they're more likely to retreat back to a more entrenched position and grow stronger in opposition; and the public aren't buying into the old 'but you're IRA' rhetoric they continue to throw at them. Sinn Féin aren't going anywhere so the only way to handle it is to engage them so their politics can be further normalised (which seems to be an imposssibility in the North) – isn't that how a progressive democracy is supposed to work?


Good to see the Greens reach double figures.

 

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16789 on: 10 February, 2020, 09:21:20 PM »
I genuinely can't get my head around the reaction of so many British commentators to SF's success.

"Jeremy Corbyn sympathises with democratically-elected British MPs" doesn't have quite the same sting, so The Brits have been pushing a different angle on SF for the last few years that has become the accepted narrative - though I suspect a major part of their apparent befuddlement also stems from the fact that the UK media has now locked itself into a performative ignorance about the successes of any party that presents even the faintest whiff of socialism.  Much of what I've seen of SF's rhetoric seems to focus on their workers' rights campaigning and housing policy, which seems to go down with British centrists even worse than SF's policy on people's family members disappearing.

TordelBack

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16790 on: 10 February, 2020, 10:12:40 PM »
It's the "blowing people up" bit that leaves me speechless, as if every UK government hasn't joyously taken any opportunity to blow shite out of foreign children for political and financial gain, or gleefully support those who do, and a hell of a lot more recently.

I've no time for the 'armed struggle', or for sectarian politics, never have, never will. I wish my country's independence had grown quietly and gradually through Home Rule, not violence and division. But that's over, and this is what comes after. Stop trying to bring it all back.

 
« Last Edit: 10 February, 2020, 10:14:25 PM by TordelBack »

Mister Pops

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16791 on: 10 February, 2020, 10:16:48 PM »

I've no time for ... for sectarian politics..

To be fair, neither did the Sínners for three years there
You may quote me on that.

TordelBack

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16792 on: 10 February, 2020, 11:05:33 PM »

I've no time for ... for sectarian politics..

To be fair, neither did the Sínners for three years there

Arf!

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16793 on: 11 February, 2020, 07:00:09 PM »
y.

I've no time for the 'armed struggle', or for sectarian politics, never have, never will. I wish my country's independence had grown quietly and gradually through Home Rule, not violence and division. But that's over, and this is what comes after. Stop trying to bring it all back.

Couldn't agree more.  However, the Shinners aren't doing themselves too many favours on that score either, with a TD unapologetically shouting 'Up the Ra' to celebrate his election, and supporters shouting similar boneheaded slogans on hearing news of the landslide.

While I am delighted to see such breaches in the two-party brick wall, I can't help thinking it isn't just the opposing parties who need to let the past go and grow the fuck up.
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

JOE SOAP

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16794 on: 11 February, 2020, 07:21:32 PM »
Couldn't agree more.  However, the Shinners aren't doing themselves too many favours on that score either, with a TD unapologetically shouting 'Up the Ra' to celebrate his election, and supporters shouting similar boneheaded slogans on hearing news of the landslide.


I blame the BBC for making Republican songs cool and funny.


TordelBack

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16795 on: 11 February, 2020, 08:04:57 PM »
Couldn't agree more.  However, the Shinners aren't doing themselves too many favours on that score either, with a TD unapologetically shouting 'Up the Ra' to celebrate his election, and supporters shouting similar boneheaded slogans on hearing news of the landslide.


I blame the BBC for making Republican songs cool and funny.

Cullinane is an absolute fecking eejit for what he said, no question, unnecessary, hurtful, divisive and damaging.

However, to hear commentators- both UK and RoI - banging on about it as if one fool's words undermines the GFA and the peace process, after the utter contempt with which Leave and the Tories have treated those very issues, or to imply that celebrating past acts of violence is beyond the Pale, or that asserting nationalist ambitions is barbaric... that's galactic scale hypocrisy.

You don't get to laud Cromwell as the architect of your democracy, or your Brexit as liberation from oppression, or the civilising benefits of your once-and-future Empire and lecture other prats about their offensive nationalist language.

Note: I am in no shape or form a nationalist.
« Last Edit: 11 February, 2020, 08:09:17 PM by TordelBack »

Mister Pops

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16796 on: 11 February, 2020, 08:16:42 PM »
As a Northerner, the thing I find baffling is that the people of Ireland no longer wanted incompetent politicians, operating as part of a political duopoly, whose inaction was causing suffering to their citizens, while burying their snouts in the trough ans their heads in the sand... so they voted for Sínn Fein?
« Last Edit: 11 February, 2020, 08:21:41 PM by Mister Pops »
You may quote me on that.

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16797 on: 11 February, 2020, 09:06:10 PM »
Meanwhile, in the UK Labour continues to tear itself apart:

https://twitter.com/RaynerSkyNews/status/1227300116937216000

I don’t even.

maryanddavid

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16798 on: 11 February, 2020, 09:33:31 PM »
I like Eamon Ryan but he is a poor at getting his points across. If the Greens had a more articulate leader I think they would have done a lot better.
A lot of the SF vote was a vote for anyone other than FGFF and Labour. It will be very interesting to see how it all pans out.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16799 on: 11 February, 2020, 10:04:21 PM »
Couldn't agree more.  However, the Shinners aren't doing themselves too many favours on that score either, with a TD unapologetically shouting 'Up the Ra' to celebrate his election, and supporters shouting similar boneheaded slogans on hearing news of the landslide.


I blame the BBC for making Republican songs cool and funny.

Cullinane is an absolute fecking eejit for what he said, no question, unnecessary, hurtful, divisive and damaging.

However, to hear commentators- both UK and RoI - banging on about it as if one fool's words undermines the GFA and the peace process, after the utter contempt with which Leave and the Tories have treated those very issues, or to imply that celebrating past acts of violence is beyond the Pale, or that asserting nationalist ambitions is barbaric... that's galactic scale hypocrisy.

You don't get to laud Cromwell as the architect of your democracy, or your Brexit as liberation from oppression, or the civilising benefits of your once-and-future Empire and lecture other prats about their offensive nationalist language.

Note: I am in no shape or form a nationalist.

I absolutely agree.  We really need to get past this idea of fetishising our own past atrocities and condemning those of others.  Killing people is never something to be proud
of, whoever does it.

Sure, the British nationalist cheerleaders are in no position to throw stones from their glass houses.  But I really feel that Sinn Fein now has a lot more responsibility, and also needs to at least address this kind of frothing, belligerent bullshit when it comes from from its own members.
 
« Last Edit: 11 February, 2020, 10:10:30 PM by JayzusB.Christ »
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”