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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 1101990 times)

TordelBack

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15870 on: 06 August, 2019, 07:56:15 am »
I wonder to what extent I, a low-level prog-buyer, have been radicalised into occasional acts of purchasing the Meg and even hardback Hachette volumes, through my association with a shady internet group of almost-exclusively middle-aged men who follow every utterance from a decades-long series of quasi-anonymous men who pass themselves off as gaudily-attired avatars of a cruel supernatural dictator. When inevitably raided by the culture police, my home will be shown to be strewn with almost 50 years worth of mouldering publications depicting sickening acts of violence, and mounds of plastic tat so infantile that its aggregate purchase can only be a way of secretly channelling funds to shadowy masters. As they drag me away, my frankly-relieved wife and children will be quoted as saying "we always knew he was a bit odd, but as long as it kept him quiet for an hour or two a week we just let him at it".

On the question of the supposed failures of modern education, I think we'd be as well looking at the systems of 40 or 50 years ago for explanation of many of our modern woes.

Smith

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15871 on: 06 August, 2019, 05:35:35 pm »
Turns out the Ohio shooter posted his manifesto on INSTAGRAM,then somebody else posted it on 8Chan. So when is Instagram getting shut down?

MacabreMagpie

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15872 on: 06 August, 2019, 06:08:30 pm »
Turns out the Ohio shooter posted his manifesto on INSTAGRAM,then somebody else posted it on 8Chan. So when is Instagram getting shut down?

Did you hear all that stuff that happened with the teenager Bianca Devins, the other week? Her murderer posted photos of her body on instagram and they've been all over the platform since.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49001706

Frank

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15873 on: 06 August, 2019, 06:21:09 pm »
Ohio

El Paso. The Dayton murderer posted no manifesto; no reports of any Toledo manifesto either.

Here's an image of the extra-capacity magazine the Dayton murderer used to kill 9 people in 10 seconds. You can't stop people owning this kind of firepower though - what if they want to hunt 100 ducks to feed their family, but have to do so in the time it takes to light a fag?

Won't anyone think of the time-pressed sportsman?






JOE SOAP

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15874 on: 06 August, 2019, 06:24:17 pm »


Just stop selling the bullets.


Frank

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15875 on: 06 August, 2019, 06:27:48 pm »

Smith

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15876 on: 06 August, 2019, 07:24:47 pm »
Turns out the Ohio shooter posted his manifesto on INSTAGRAM,then somebody else posted it on 8Chan. So when is Instagram getting shut down?

Did you hear all that stuff that happened with the teenager Bianca Devins, the other week? Her murderer posted photos of her body on instagram and they've been all over the platform since.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49001706

Yeah,I heard about it. So again,why isnt anyone calling for Instagram to be shut down?

@Frank Your right,El Paso.
Jim read it on his stream and its just...I mean,how many mass shooter manifestos mention Lorax?
« Last Edit: 06 August, 2019, 07:26:31 pm by Smith »

Frank

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15877 on: 06 August, 2019, 07:39:05 pm »
why isnt anyone calling for Instagram to be shut down?

Nobody called for anything to be shut down*. You set that one up and have been fighting that fight all by yourself for several posts without reply.

No law against it, but it seems like a waste of time and energy.


* The El Paso link in my last post lists how organisations like Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube have responded to demands for action against hate speech and those who promote it. As far as I'm aware, none of these organisations have ever been 'shut down'

Hawkmumbler

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15878 on: 06 August, 2019, 07:42:35 pm »
I mean 8Chan is a cesspool of the worst kind of human being but I honestly can't think of any benefits of shutting it down that wouldn't result in the emotionally stunted inhabitants migrating to other platforms. Imposing stricter moderation seems to be the only sensible, but highly unlikely, option.

Smith

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15879 on: 06 August, 2019, 07:49:45 pm »
why isnt anyone calling for Instagram to be shut down?

Nobody called for anything to be shut down*. You set that one up and have been fighting that fight all by yourself for several posts without reply.

No law against it, but it seems like a waste of time and energy.


* The El Paso link in my last post lists how organisations like Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube have responded to demands for action against hate speech and those who promote it. As far as I'm aware, none of these organisations have ever been 'shut down'
Every blue checkmark on twitter? Every so called journalist and useful idiot out there? Moderation,censorship, think of the children.
Losing your DDos protection and hosting provider does wonders for the site,Im sure.

Frank

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15880 on: 06 August, 2019, 08:02:52 pm »
Nobody called for anything to be shut down

Every blue checkmark on twitter? Every so called journalist and useful idiot out there?

Those advancing that argument on Twitter are unlikely to see your replies if you post them on this site.



Smith

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15881 on: 06 August, 2019, 08:09:15 pm »
@Frank Im answering your question.You asked who.

Tjm86

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15882 on: 06 August, 2019, 08:14:28 pm »
I do wonder at the argument in favour of giving such attitudes the space and oxygen needed.  The idea that such creatures would migrate to other spaces, that the best disinfectant is sunlight ...

All valid arguments but then again what message does denial of such attitudes in most freely accessible fora send?  This place has robust moderation that ensures that appropriate standards of humanity are adhered to.  Denial might offend but it exclusion also sends the message that those standards will be maintained.

The audience on this site is diverse across many dimensions.  We have ethnic minorities and majorities, we have a range of sexualities, a combination of national and educational backgrounds, we even have representatives from religious groups.  There may be robust disagreement at times but the one line that is not crossed is the one that uses any of these characteristics to dehumanise and exclude.

The tech industry has had a free ride for far too long and needs to be called out for its failings.  Its about time anyone who hosts fora of any kind, social interaction of any type, needs to have a named moderator who is legally answerable for what is posted.  The same expectations of media organisations need to be placed on social media companies.  While posters might be able to remain anonymous online, it should be a legal requirement that hosts provide verifiable contact information for posters who break the law.

Shutting down providers may be extreme but that sanction does need to be in place as a nuclear option.  Robust measures that make these companies stop and think though are more likely to make it unnecessary.  Telling companies that they will not be welcome to do business is potentially the only realistic option, the only one they are likely to pay attention to.  Telling ISP's in this country that they are likely to be massively fined for allowing intentional access and placing the burden on them to prove that individuals have acted to circumvent restrictions will help.

Will this drive the sorts of behaviours that cause these problems underground?  Quite conceivably.  Then again that also reinforces the message that these are not normal behaviours.  The restrictions we establish also set the parameters for acceptable behaviour.

Frank

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15883 on: 06 August, 2019, 08:14:28 pm »
@Frank Im answering your question.You asked who.

Nope. Read the post you quoted.

This is embarrassing, man - I'm not replying anymore.  Have a nice evening.



IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15884 on: 06 August, 2019, 08:56:47 pm »
The tech industry has had a free ride for far too long and needs to be called out for its failings.  Its about time anyone who hosts fora of any kind, social interaction of any type, needs to have a named moderator who is legally answerable for what is posted.
I disagree, because such places are not publishers. Also, if you start arguing moderation people are liable for content posted by others, you open up a can of worms that will ensure forums such as this would immediately cease to operate, and so would the vast majority of social networks.

I’d argue the bigger players need to be much, much better regarding social responsibility and moderation. It’s pretty clear Twitter doesn’t give much of a shit about racism, for example. Facebook isn’t too fussed about women when they’re being harassed, and yet the site has a really random touch regarding banning. This is what happens when social networks are all run by rich white conservatives.

On this place, I hope we get the balance right. This forum has the lightest-touch moderation of any I’ve been involved with that has more than the tiniest amount of traffic. But most of the admins aren’t Rebellion staff – we just help out. If the day comes when someone says “Hey, IP: you are legally answerable for what is posted”, then fuck that. And even if that’s shunted over to ‘a’ moderator who’s staff, that’s the day someone’s told to hit delete on the folder marked ‘forum’.

(In a more general sense, I’m of the oxygen theory — when you stop talking about people, they do eventually fuck off. See: Yiannopoulos.)