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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 1302217 times)

shaolin_monkey

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16470 on: 26 November, 2019, 07:36:44 PM »
In the meantime, these 10 grim graphs show the impact of 20 years of Tory rule.

https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1194580555033133056?s=21

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16471 on: 26 November, 2019, 07:48:59 PM »
The Hindu Council UK and the Sikh Federation UK have their say...
I'll confess that this one has come a bit out of the blue


Good to see people on Twitter rightly call out Paul Brand's dishonest framing and knowingly misrepresenting the Muslim Council, but this is not that unexpected, as Hindu nationalists have been giving off about British leftists' criticism of Narendra Modi over Kashmir.
A far-right ethno-nationalist who hates Muslims has endorsed another far-right ethno-nationalist who hates Muslims in a politically-motivated smear campaign against someone who has openly criticised Israel's treatment of Palestinians and India's treatment of Kashmiri Muslims - I mean, the only surprise is that it's taken this long for the two to get together.  About four paragraphs in, he even starts complaining specifically about how Corbyn defends Muslims more than he does Hindus - replace "Hindus" with "white children" and apart from not being written in crayon it's hard to distinguish between this and a Tommy Robinson Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon screed.

Quoting "first they came for the socialists" in a letter that is literally coming for the socialists takes some fucking brass neck, though.

Steve Green

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16472 on: 26 November, 2019, 07:50:39 PM »
And when some respond that they've never heard of this organisation.

Frank

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16473 on: 26 November, 2019, 07:51:03 PM »

And people thought Sturgeon came out worst from her encounter with Andrew Neil last night ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000bqpt/the-andrew-neil-interviews-election-2019-jeremy-corbyn



Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16474 on: 26 November, 2019, 09:27:58 PM »
I was so sure Jez would get an easy ride and then be reported upon as having done well, but this has come as a complete surprise.

Frank

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16475 on: 26 November, 2019, 09:31:03 PM »

Neil's got Johnson on tomorrow. The poor twat must be absolutely shitting himself.



The Enigmatic Dr X

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16476 on: 26 November, 2019, 11:32:31 PM »
I really don't know who to vote for, as I am in Scotland.

I don't want Brexit, but accept it's the will of the people. So it should happen. Except I don't think anyone knew what was being proposed, and am worried about Russian involvement having skewed the vote. (That may be paranoia).

I really don't want Scottish independence. The European Union is 40 years old and has an exit mechanism, yet it has proven difficult bordering on impossible for the UK to exit. What chance, then, for either England or Scotland to have an orderly unwinding of a 300 year old treaty with no exit mechanism? We could face a decade of uncertainty and, frankly, there are bigger (climate, economy) problems that need fixing in that time.

Not to mention the simultaneous negotiations with Europe. We face not an endless war but rather an endless dialogue.

So, vote Tory to keep the union? Likely a wasted vote.

Vote labour, to have a referendum? But Corbyn will sell Scotland up the referndum river to get SNP backing.

Vote libdem? Certainly a wasted vote.
Lock up your spoons!

Frank

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16477 on: 26 November, 2019, 11:43:41 PM »

You're my brother from another mother, Doc:

https://www.remainunited.org/



IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16478 on: 27 November, 2019, 12:26:24 AM »
The “will of the people” is a line trotted out by autocrats. In any other country that enacts direct democracy, there would at the very least be a confirmatory ballot on a vote this massive. Here, we instead get to look at polling that hasn’t showed Leave with a majority in something like two years, with the Tories screaming that they have to get Brexit done. (They’re half right. They have to get it started or their chance will slip away. But it won’t be ‘done’ in any meaningful sense for a decade at the very least. And when it is done, only a handful of very rich people will be better off.)

shaolin_monkey

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16479 on: 27 November, 2019, 01:00:42 AM »


I don't want Brexit, but accept it's the will of the people. So it should happen. Except I don't think anyone knew what was being proposed, and am worried about Russian involvement having skewed the vote. (That may be paranoia).



Not paranoia at all my friend. It seems everyone has accepted it except the U.K.  Here’s a former CIA chief of staff openly discussing it:

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1198169894401036288?s=21


You might do well to check out Carole Cadwalladr’s TEDtalk about Facebook interference. Leave.EU, Aaron Banks, and Cambridge Analytica got some seriously shady money from somewhere:


https://youtu.be/OQSMr-3GGvQ


Then, of course, there’s our Leave supporting Russian asset of a PM:

2017

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/04/boris-johnson-brexit-russia-trump


2018

https://www.businessinsider.com/suspected-russian-spy-pictured-with-his-good-friend-boris-johnson-2018-2?r=US&IR=T








shaolin_monkey

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16480 on: 27 November, 2019, 01:03:55 AM »
Urgh, post went wrong. Loads of links got lost there, mostly under the Johnson/Leave/Russia bit.  Anyway, it’s all on Google - just type Boris Johnson Leave Russia and you’ll see a shitload of news articles about the clown compromising our democracy via Russian influence.


radiator

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16481 on: 27 November, 2019, 01:28:13 AM »
Quote
I don't want Brexit, but accept it's the will of the people. So it should happen.

If the referendum had had a clear majority result I'd agree with you. But with the result being so down to the wire and the issue being so big and all-consuming, and infinitely more complicated than anyone realised at the time (100% myself included) I'm not convinced, especially as it seem the Tories will only be happy with a very hard Brexit that only extremists want.

The Lib Dem idea of simply overruling and scrapping Brexit altogether seems dangerous, so for me (trying to be as objective as possible) the only sensible, grown up way forward is what is being proposed by Labour - so-called No Deal Brexit off the table (because that is absolutely NOT what was being proposed by even the most hardline of Leave campaigners prior to the ref, despite what they try to spin now), and then a prospective deal for a soft Brexit is negotiated, which will be then put to the public, with the Labour leadership not campaigning for either result.

Quote
Vote labour, to have a referendum? But Corbyn will sell Scotland up the referndum river to get SNP backing.

Maybe so, but wouldn't the prospect of another EU ref and a soft Brexit at worst take a lot of the wind out of the sails of the drive for a second indy ref?
« Last Edit: 27 November, 2019, 01:29:54 AM by radiator »

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16482 on: 27 November, 2019, 01:30:55 AM »
what is being proposed by Labour - hard Brexit off the table
Although Labour policy right now is still hard Brexit, given that the furthest it will move on the single market is woolly words about “close alignment”, which is functionality meaningless. So really, they’re offering a customs union with some worker rights bolted on – a Turkey Brexit.

CalHab

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16483 on: 27 November, 2019, 08:41:23 AM »
I really don't want Scottish independence. The European Union is 40 years old and has an exit mechanism, yet it has proven difficult bordering on impossible for the UK to exit. What chance, then, for either England or Scotland to have an orderly unwinding of a 300 year old treaty with no exit mechanism? We could face a decade of uncertainty and, frankly, there are bigger (climate, economy) problems that need fixing in that time.

It certainly seems like a massive challenge, but I don't think the UK is in any shape to address any of the bigger problems you identify and I can't see when it will ever be. At what point do you head for the liferaft?

shaolin_monkey

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16484 on: 27 November, 2019, 11:59:05 AM »
So, Jeremy Corbyn held a press conference revealing 400 pages of unredacted documents exposing the NHS is on the table in US trade talks.

Discuss.