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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 1232204 times)

Mister Pops

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16590 on: 13 December, 2019, 02:15:46 PM »

...but the sheer arrogance of the DUP makes them very unpredictable...


Well they're refusing to take any kind of responsibility and blaming the fenians. Seems completely predictable to me.

The nationalist majority was more a result of anti-brexit sentiment, it's looking like the DUP might still have lost most of Belfast even if the Nationalist's hadn't formed an electoral pact. I was surprised Naomi Long didn't take East-Belfast, I thought she had a better chance than Finucane in North Belfast. I guess her constantly feeding twitter trolls lost her support.
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ming

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16591 on: 13 December, 2019, 02:17:49 PM »
Is a move to proportional representation likely at this point?  Or will that be quietly buried since it's unlikely to work in favour of the current government?

Rately

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16592 on: 13 December, 2019, 02:27:11 PM »

...but the sheer arrogance of the DUP makes them very unpredictable...


Well they're refusing to take any kind of responsibility and blaming the fenians. Seems completely predictable to me.

The nationalist majority was more a result of anti-brexit sentiment, it's looking like the DUP might still have lost most of Belfast even if the Nationalist's hadn't formed an electoral pact. I was surprised Naomi Long didn't take East-Belfast, I thought she had a better chance than Finucane in North Belfast. I guess her constantly feeding twitter trolls lost her support.

Those bloody Pan-Nationalists!

Aye, I thought Gavin Robinson would have lost the seat, too, to be honest. A shame.

If they fail to learn lessons, and soften their stance on so many issues facing Northern Ireland, they will lose more seats. Hopefully the hangers-on they attract, and encourage, will disappear back off into the shadows.

Be interesting to see how those blood red lines they always talk about are reassessed in any upcoming talks to restore Stormont. Maybe the moment is right to consign the POC to the rubbish heap it belongs in. Would be a good start.

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16593 on: 13 December, 2019, 02:44:31 PM »
Is a move to proportional representation likely at this point?
Not even remotely. It’s supported by pretty much every party in GB (not sure about NI positions), with two glowering exceptions: the Tories (because FPTP works very nicely for them) and Labour (because they’re still arrogant enough to think it will work for them again – at some point). In favour of PR: Lib Dems; Greens; UKIP; Brexit Party; Plaid Cymru; and – due to the fact they have integrity – SNP.

No fucking chance then, not least because people wrongly keep banging on that we already had a referendum on PR in 2011 and rejected it. (No we didn’t and no we didn’t. AV is a majoritarian system, not proportional. It can actually result in LESS proportional results than FPTP.) Blair needs a serious kicking for 1) not standing up to his cabinet over the Jenkins Report and junking it, and 2) still believing FPTP is the right system.

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16594 on: 13 December, 2019, 03:23:48 PM »
We have STV in Northern Ireland, which is pretty much the same thing as PR so I assume we're generally in favor, or at least don't care enough to kick up a fuss.

Dandontdare

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16595 on: 13 December, 2019, 03:24:52 PM »
No fucking chance then, not least because people wrongly keep banging on that we already had a referendum on PR in 2011 and rejected it. (No we didn’t and no we didn’t. AV is a majoritarian system, not proportional. It can actually result in LESS proportional results than FPTP.) Blair needs a serious kicking for 1) not standing up to his cabinet over the Jenkins Report and junking it, and 2) still believing FPTP is the right system.

This is what pissed me off most about the coalition - the LibDems had a once in a lifetime chance to push through ONE policy properly in return for their support, but fluffed it with an AV system that even they didn't really support.

Mister Pops

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16596 on: 13 December, 2019, 03:48:32 PM »
Blair needs a serious kicking for 1) not standing up to his cabinet over the Jenkins Report and junking it, and 2) still believing FPTP is the right system.

This is not an exhaustive list
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radiator

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16597 on: 13 December, 2019, 03:54:07 PM »
I truly hope that this sort of disgusting nationalistic fervour soon dies down.  I just don't know.

Of course it won't. It just won the Tories a landslide — they're not putting this back in its box when it works so well for them.

It absolutely won't. The only question is, once we're out of the EU, who the anger gets turned on next.

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16598 on: 13 December, 2019, 03:56:32 PM »
This is what pissed me off most about the coalition - the LibDems had a once in a lifetime chance to push through ONE policy properly in return for their support, but fluffed it with an AV system that even they didn't really support.
Gay marriage was the prize, but the Tories subsequently spun that as their win. The Libs monumentally messed up on AV though. The suggestion at the time was Labour wouldn’t budge any further than AV either. Libs should have red-lined AV+ (and via parliament, backed by Con, not a ref) along with Clegg as foreign secretary. The DUP might be arseholes, but they show the strength a junior partner in a coalition can have.

We have STV in Northern Ireland, which is pretty much the same thing as PR so I assume we're generally in favor, or at least don't care enough to kick up a fuss.
I would assume the DUP is against PR, but had to suck it up for the assembly. In 2011, they, the Tories, the UUP and the BNP were against PR (as, oddly, with the NI Greens). Labour, natch, sat on the fence, because of course they did.

Professor Bear

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16599 on: 13 December, 2019, 04:22:47 PM »
In the context of NI, STV and FPTP are essentially the same thing for the really tribalist voters who likely don't bother with anything beyond their first preference.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16600 on: 13 December, 2019, 04:24:52 PM »
The SNP may have a more open outlook than many nationalist parties, but they share the trait of blaming all the ills of the world and all their failures in government on "them".




I can't claim to know how Scottish people feel and think, but I would imagine feelings about Scottish independence have changed a bit since Brexit.  Leaving the UK would mean having the option to stay in the EU (which the majority of that country wanted anyway), so supporting independence may be more a pragmatic choice for some Scots these days than an emotional one.  Or am I way off the mark?

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16601 on: 13 December, 2019, 04:40:54 PM »
Leaving the UK would mean having the option to stay in the EU (which the majority of that country wanted anyway), so supporting independence may be more a pragmatic choice for some Scots these days than an emotional one.  Or am I way off the mark?

Plus, of course, being in the EU and not having to go through the process of applying to join as an independent nation was sold as one of the key advantages of staying in the union.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16602 on: 13 December, 2019, 04:49:52 PM »
And “you’d never get in anyway, because Spain wouldn’t allow it” has been shown up as the bullshit it always was. There is, mind, one thorny issue: if Scotland does join the EU, there would have to be a hard border with England. Fun times.

ming

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16603 on: 13 December, 2019, 04:58:07 PM »
...if Scotland does join the EU, there would have to be a hard border with England. Fun times.

Hadrian's wall 2.0?

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #16604 on: 13 December, 2019, 05:04:36 PM »

The Tory Trellis.

Or that old favourite, the Irn Bru Curtain.

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Be excellent to each other. And party on!

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