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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 816368 times)

SuperSurfer

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #75 on: 13 April, 2010, 01:01:08 pm »
I have no problems with people coming to this country, so long as they become us and support us, believe in what we believe in and add to the life of this nation. If they want to come here and be themselves and set up their own churches, communities etc. Then they can fuck off!
:o

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #76 on: 13 April, 2010, 01:05:22 pm »
Humanity belongs to the world, the world doesn't belong to humanity.

Banners

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #77 on: 13 April, 2010, 01:16:37 pm »
Quote from: Colin MacNeil
I have no problems with people coming to this country, so long as they become us and support us, believe in what we believe in and add to the life of this nation. If they want to come here and be themselves and set up their own churches, communities etc. Then they can fuck off! Immigrants, yes. Colonists, no.

Colin - you're one of my all-time 2000AD heroes but I can't agree with that, sorry. I live in Birmingham which is very multi-cultural and wish things were even more integrated here than they already are, but don't begrudge each community their own way of doing things.

M@

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #78 on: 13 April, 2010, 01:27:50 pm »
Got this in my email today, which raised a slight smile:

CHOICES........................

While walking down the street one day a "Member of Parliament" is tragically hit by a truck and dies.

His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the  entrance.

'Welcome to heaven,' says St. Peter.. 'Before you settle in,  it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you.'

'No problem, just let me in,' says the man.

'Well, I'd like to, but I  have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity.'

'Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven,'  says the MP.

'I'm sorry, but we have our rules.'

And with  that, St. Peter  escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down  to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green  golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it  are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with  him.

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had  while getting rich at the expense of the people.

They play a  friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and  champagne.

Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly & nice guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go.

Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises....

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.

'Now it's time  to visit heaven.'

So, 24 hours pass with the MP joining a group  of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing.  They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by  and St. Peter returns.

'Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and  another in heaven. Now choose your eternity.'

The MP reflects for a minute, then he answers: 'Well, I would never have said it  before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but  I think I would be better off  in hell.'

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down,  down, down to hell.

Now the doors of  the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with  waste and garbage.

He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.

The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his  shoulder. 'I don't understand,' stammers the MP. 'Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time.. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable.


    What happened?'

    The devil looks at him, smiles and says, 'Yesterday we were campaigning... ...


    Today you voted.'

Peter Wolf

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #79 on: 13 April, 2010, 01:49:56 pm »
I agree with both Colin McNeill and HOO-HAA .

Everyone should be able to live the way they like in principle but you do get problems with ex-pat communities who set up in other countries yet they make no effort to integrate into the countries they have emmigrated into like all English in Spain for example.Theres no law against doing that but it creates bad feeling among the indigenous people.Communities that dont integrate cause bad feeling.

Thats what seems to be the main problem.Having said that if they dont want to integrate then no one is forcing them to and its not the be all and end all of life but the line has to be drawn when an immigrant population start to impose their will on the host nation and thats unnacceptable in my mind.Its hypocritical as well becaise i couldnt very well start imposing my will in certain countries i wont mention by name because they wouldnt tolerate it.

Shariah law in the UK should be out of the question and if Muslims decide to live in the UK then they should realise that the UK is not a Muslim country before they choose to live here.Saying or thinking otherwise is just plain stupid.Tolerance and religious freedom\freedom of expression should be enough for *anyone* but there are always going to be some that want more than that and if you give them an inch they will take a mile if they think that they can get away with it and its human nature for some [usually a minority - no not that kind of minority] to abuse the generosity and tolerance of others.

Think of this messageboard as a community and how everyone integrates and is tolerant of others and their views or whatever.What happens if myself or anyone else decides that they dont like this messageboard because of this or that and they decided that they wanted to change its content ?

There is too much talk all about Judge Dredd for example so i decide that i have had enough of it and decide to rant about it or loudly protest about it ?

Whats going to happen then ?

Its 100 percent certain that i would be told to fuck right off if i didnt like it and its the same thing as choosing to move to another country and then ranting and raving about it for whatever reason.The choice is theirs to either stay or leave.


This is indeed a very interesting thread. Here are some thoughts.


The arguments about immigration should be based on economics and numbers only which they are.


Immigration based on economics only? Bollocks! So you would put money before principles then? How about slavery then? Let's bring back serfdom. How about keeping the poor poor? Let's just farm a workforce, a la brave new world. It would be good for the economy. Money is not our reason for being, it is just a mechanism for trade.


What i meant by "Economics" was having immigration quotas that are linked to the economic situation in a country.I guess economics was the wrong choice of word but if you chose to emmigrate to Australia for example or Canada they have a points system and its related to skills and skills shortages and there is a direct relation with that to the economy and what you can contribute to it.Thats not what i think but its how it is.

The poor are kept poor regardless.Banksters and the rest of the criminals see to that.We are all slaves or chattel anyway and that much is fact.



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Colin MacNeil

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #80 on: 13 April, 2010, 02:37:40 pm »
Well, I have certainly seemed to stir things up!
I make no apologies for my views, it comes from the views of my culture. I am in my mid forties, my father was in his forties when I was born, his father was in his thirties when he was born. My upbringing was, in a sense, in the pre modern enlightenment way. I have VERY old fashioned views. I have spoken to many diverse people in Scotland and the vast majority generally agree with me, at least those in their 40's/50's and over. The older they are the more similar the views.
I grew up in a time and place where it was considered "multi-cultural" if both Catholics and Protestants lived on the same street, or even if someone from Glasgow or Edinburgh lived there.
It may sound strange to you younger folk, or to those who do live amongst many communities, but that is how my life/culture was then.
It was also my culture to look down on the poor, the homosexual, the aetheist etc. Those things have changed thankfully, but at least that was a move from within my own culture. All cultures change, some die out, some stamped out. I guess what I'm trying to saw is let's see where "our" culture will take us, not the homogenous culture of global multi-culturism, where wherever you go you get the same thing again and again.
 This country has suffered terribly in the last century, from the loss of an entire generation in the First World War where the hearts of entire communities were litterally wiped out in Scotland. To the wiping out of the hopes and stability of entire communities with the destruction of the old industries, coal, ship building and steel making in the eighties.

We do need immigrants to come here, to help with the rich diversity of our gene pool, to bring new ideas and ways of doing stuff. But not at the cost at what our ancestors struggled and died for.
In the very early nineties I considered moving to London to help progress my career, but I decided not to because I wanted to remain Scottish. If I were to move outside Scotland then the land and people I would live with would have to have my full support, otherewise why would they have any reason to accept me. Maybe it's an old fashioned view, I don't know. All I know is that I can see my nation's culture teeter on the edge of oblivion and it makes me sad. The glens of my ancestors are all but devoid of their natives, their language, dialects and customs are all disappearing.
Maybe our culture should disappear from this earth. Maybe it's too old fashioned, too un-PC, too different to the demands of global modernisation.

Maybe multi-culturism is the future, I don't know. All I know is that I want to spend the rest of my life on this sphere here, amongst my own kin, amongst those who hold their memories dear and those who will fight and give everything for that dream that is Scotland.


Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #81 on: 13 April, 2010, 02:47:11 pm »
but don't begrudge each community their own way of doing things.

I'm genuinely about as liberal and wishy-washy PC as they come, but there is a group that flyers and flyposts my neighbourhood every local/European/General election with the single message: "Voting is a sin against Islam."

To which, I'm afraid, my response is: "Fine -- fuck off and live in an Islamic state, then."

Cheers

Jim
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #82 on: 13 April, 2010, 03:31:23 pm »

...there is a group that flyers and flyposts my neighbourhood every local/European/General election with the single message: "Voting is a sin against Islam."

To which, I'm afraid, my response is: "Fine -- fuck off and live in an Islamic state, then."

Cheers

Jim

"The process of voting in non-Muslim democratic countries is not based on religious ideologies neither are elections won and lost on the basis of religion. As such, a candidate that stands up in an election does not promise to implement the laws of Islam or any other religion for that matter.

Normally a candidate promises the public better services and facilities. These services may also be connected to a particular religion, like promising Muslims financial assistance for the construction of Masjids, and so on.

Therefore, to vote a particular candidate or party in non-Muslim countries will be permissible and not considered a sin or Kufr. When one votes for a party, it does not necessarily mean that one agrees completely with their beliefs and ideologies, rather the intention is that the candidate (or party) will be of help to the whole community.

In light of the above, it becomes clear that to vote in itself is not something that is impermissible..." Muhammad ibn Adam, Darul Iftaa, Leicester , UK
http://www.therevival.co.uk/wp-site/270


"In some cases it is wrong to vote, such as when the matter will have no effect on the Muslims, or when the Muslims have no effect on the outcome of the vote. In this case voting or not voting is all the same. The same applies in cases where all the candidates are equally evil or where they all have the same attitude towards Muslims…

It may be the case that the interests of Islam require Muslims to vote so as to ward off the greater evil and to reduce harmful effects, such as where two candidates may be non-Muslims but one of them is less hostile towards Muslims than the other, and Muslims’ votes will have an impact on the outcome of the election. In such cases there is nothing wrong with Muslims casting their votes in favour of the less evil candidate." Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/3062


It seems to me that anyone who proclaims that "voting is a sin against Islam," is either working against Islam (third party agitators? Surely not!) or needs to understand it better. The thing is, upon seeing that slogan, how many people will even bother to check if it's true?

SuperSurfer

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #83 on: 13 April, 2010, 03:45:07 pm »
I think most people would agree that it isn't to the benefit of anyone (the 'indigenous' population or immigrants) when ethnic groups entrench themselves.

I don't know if that has happened with some groups consciously – perhaps due to fears of children / women in particular having contact with this comparatively more liberal society, religious extremism; racism or perhaps some just couldn't relate to this society. Knowledge of the English language or lack of it no doubt would play some part. I suppose it's a combination of some of the above to some degree.

But I know immigrants who have been here for decades, still have a very limited use of English and yet have children who have studied hard, gone to university and have gone on to have very successful careers. People who are extremely high earners who have risen to the top of their chosen professions and have integrated, some marrying inside of their communities and some outside. Don't know what harm they or their parents caused anyone other than being a bit 'different'. Perhaps they didn't manage to fully integrate 100 percent but they did a good job of bringing up kids who did.

I can't understand what harm is being caused to anyone by immigrants and their descendants having their own communities and worshipping in their own churches / mosques / temples / synagogues or whatever. Should they not have freedom of religion?

I was just about to say that I don't see communities imposing their will on others and then I read Jim's comment. Beggars belief that they don't see what harm they are causing everyone by fly posting that sort of stuff.

As for disappearing culture, I do hear of misguided people such as those in councils around the country trying to bend over backwards not to offend ethnic minorities and as a result contribute to ridding this country of its heritage eg references to Christmas. I was glad to see on TV recently that other religious groups joined Christians in campaigning for councils to keep Christmas festivities and even participated in demonstrations in support. Unfortunately the misguided acts of some councils result in other religious communities taking the blame.

There was another TV series or programme a while ago which looked at the ethnic origins of people and it was surprising how many people, some with shall we say not very liberal views where found to have roots outside of these shores. Who knows how long it took their predecessors to integrate.

I am reminded by the comments of ex-England football manager Don Revie in the 70s (I think it was him) who apparently said that there were too many foreigners playing in the English league and by that he meant Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish.
« Last Edit: 13 April, 2010, 03:47:41 pm by SuperSurfer »

Peter Wolf

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #84 on: 13 April, 2010, 04:35:20 pm »

As for disappearing culture, I do hear of misguided people such as those in councils around the country trying to bend over backwards not to offend ethnic minorities and as a result contribute to ridding this country of its heritage eg references to Christmas. I was glad to see on TV recently that other religious groups joined Christians in campaigning for councils to keep Christmas festivities and even participated in demonstrations in support. Unfortunately the misguided acts of some councils result in other religious communities taking the blame.





Thats one of the interesting things that was said in that BBC "Are Christians Being Persecuted".The meddling and misguided councils imposing their politically correct dictats which are handed down to them from central government.You must be talking about the same thing.

WTF has it got to do with the council anyway ??

 >:(

Let the communities decide for themselves if they want to celebrate Xmas and how they celebrate it.

I totally agree with you there.

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Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #86 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:09:00 pm »
Excellent!

Pete Wells

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #87 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:23:47 pm »
Ha, that's funny. It reminds me of my other pet peeve hysterical tabloid story:

"< Insert incarcerated killer/pedo's name here > is enjoying < insert Christmas Dinner/random pass time here > at the taxpayers' expense!"

I'm sure they have a template and just take turns sticking Huntly/Glitter/Venables in there.

Al_Ewing

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #88 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:31:27 pm »
Stewart Lee on Political Correctness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo
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SuperSurfer

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #89 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:45:04 pm »
http://www.fivechinesecrackers.com/2009/12/how-to-write-christmas-is-under-attack.html
For years I thought these were myths about Councils and their Winterval at the expense of Christmas celebrations but that doesn't seem to be the case according to this programme:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rx7tj

I worked in an organisation where some staff it seemed were reluctant to say Merry Christmas. Quite a few where saying Happy New Year before the Xmas holidays which seemed weird (unlike Muslim staff who had no problem giving Christmas greetings). And in another company where I worked we had a long discussion about what text to put in an Xmas card we were designing. 'Season's Greetings' was wrong because it doesn't encompass all religions as it was specific to the Christian festival so we had to go with 'Seasons Greetings'. Plural, geddit? Everyone happy though only a pedant would spot that one.

And 'Happy Holidays' is not tabloid exaggeration.

True stories, folks.