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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 823777 times)

HOO-HAA

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #285 on: 25 April, 2010, 12:35:41 pm »
I appreciate where you're coming from too, Usher - I must admit to being just a tiny bit... intrigued... by Clegg. He's very skilled at what he does and must be commended for his PR.

I'm afraid that's the best I can do, in terms of praise, for any of them. But it's something, right? Especially from a self-confessed anarchist! :)


Christov

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #286 on: 25 April, 2010, 03:05:51 pm »
I think his appeal rests in the notion that he isn't entirely dependent on PR. He's gotten himself into trouble a couple times because of how frank he is sometimes, especially when Ming Campbell's leadership of the LibDems was in doubt.

Peter Wolf

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #287 on: 25 April, 2010, 10:01:28 pm »



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtHshBWFRyg&feature=related


I am not going to be taken in by another smooth talking and seemingly open and reasonable politician in a suit who seems like a breath of fresh air promising change.I wasnt taken in by the last one who was elected in 1997 or the other who was elected in the US in Nov 2008.
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HOO-HAA

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #288 on: 26 April, 2010, 07:26:13 am »
I am not going to be taken in by another smooth talking and seemingly open and reasonable politician in a suit who seems like a breath of fresh air promising change.I wasnt taken in by the last one who was elected in 1997 or the other who was elected in the US in Nov 2008.

Alas, this is also the bottom line for me, Peter.

But... I'm interested in how you see the UKIP as any different? Surely Robert Kilroy Silk (now no longer with them, but still...) was the smoothest talking suit of them all, no?
« Last Edit: 26 April, 2010, 07:29:03 am by HOO-HAA »

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #289 on: 26 April, 2010, 02:35:19 pm »
UKIP are no different. I've telephoned and emailed each and every one of my Parliamentary candidates (David Borrow (Lab), Peter Fisher (Lib Dem), Lorraine Fullbrook (Con) and David Duxbury (UKIP)) over my concerns surrounding the way the Government raises money and... guess what?

Not one of them will even talk about it. None of them want to look into it. None of them will tell me that I'm wrong. None of them will tell me that I'm right. The prevailing attitude seems to be "I'm not an economist, so I have no opinion on this. Maybe you should try another party."

How depressing to live in a mockocracy.

Dandontdare

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #290 on: 26 April, 2010, 02:58:28 pm »
I am not going to be taken in by another smooth talking and seemingly open and reasonable politician in a suit who seems like a breath of fresh air promising change.I wasnt taken in by the last one who was elected in 1997 or the other who was elected in the US in Nov 2008.

Alas, this is also the bottom line for me, Peter.

But... I'm interested in how you see the UKIP as any different? Surely Robert Kilroy Silk (now no longer with them, but still...) was the smoothest talking suit of them all, no?

I just love UKIP - not only do they provide some of the best comedy and satire of the campaign, they appeal to all the europhobic middle-Englanders and divert loads of votes away from the Tories, without ever being in danger of getting elected themselves. We need more of these Daily Mail style parties to split the tory vote even further. It used to just be the lefties who were prone to endless factionalism and infighting!

Peter Wolf

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #291 on: 26 April, 2010, 04:46:00 pm »
I am not a Europhobe in the broad sense as i have no problem with integrating with the rest of Europe or trading with Europe as my problem is why we have to lose our sovereignty and our right to self govern at the same time when we could do all of these things by joining the European Free Trade Agreement instead after leaving its present power structure and also it would save the UK billions and billions and billions a year that it throws at the EU.I might also remind everyone thast the EU has never had its books audited and in my mind it is a criminal organisation that embezzles billions and billions that its member states throw at it each year.

I dont like Collectivism especially when it concerns the EU and why should EU law have superiority over UK law ?

Why is a centralised power structure that is by default undemocratic better than democratic self-rule ?

Why should i go along with what is described in their own words as the "post-democratic era" ?

What does the post democratic era mean to you ?

What does it imply ?

It implies to me that we are ruled by dictats which is exactly what is happening right now and i wholeheartedly reject being ruled by a monolithic bereaucrtaic monolithic centralised govt that to me is very similar to the USSR in its outlook and ideology and thats no good to me so i will keep on opposing it and always will do and UKIP are the only party that represents my interests in that respect having rejected the BNP as a voting option.I will not go along with the destruction of national sovereignty or at least NOT UNTIL there are proper checks and balances in place that will protect the UK from the dangers of misplaced power and influence that are not in my interests none of which are present in the current Lisbon Treaty so its the treaty that needs to be reformed and rewritten and not the EU itself as its the Lisbon Treaty that outlines where the power has been allocated to because it removes power from the UK.

Why does what was originally intended as a trading bloc have to evolve into a power grab which is what was the intention of Adolf Hitler ?

So anyone who claims that its all about Xenophobia and that type of thing is in my mind is uneducated and they degrade and trivialise the argument against the EU in its present state by reducing a UKIP vote to that kind of level and i could write 10,000 words explaining my position on it but i wont.The EU issue is very big and very complicated/multifacted and reducing it down to simplistic arguments is just for the dull minded.

So please dont trivialise my voting choice by calling myself a eorophobic middle englander as i will take offence and i may become unpleasent because i find it insulting in the extreme as my vote is purely academic and is based on having an understanding of the political process and certainly not bigotry or ignorance.Perhaps it is for some but its not for me.

I might also add that i bitterly resent being denied a properly counted referendum on the subject where all the ins and outs of it are presented to the public so that they can decide for themselves after weighing up the pros and cons of EU membership of which there are many.some might not like this is they have collectivist tendencies and think that direct democracy is wrong but thats tough shit because they dont rule by a majority.

UKIP in my mind are the only viable vote because i am not willing to risk being cheated by the main 3 co-opted parties who are one and the same.Perhaps i am being judgemental about Nick Clegg when he hasnt even had a chance as PM but i dont know if i see someone who has personal integrity who means what they say or will it be a string of broken promises and business as usual ?

Thats my dilemma and if i was to vote for Nick Clegg then i want him to renounce his membership of Bilderberg because you cannot be a member of that organisation and claim to represent the interest of the people whom he claims to represent.However having said that Nick Clegg is distancing himself from New Labour over civil liberties which is a good thing but i need to know more before i decide to vote for them.There should also be political accountability because if i did vote for LibDems on the basis that they promised to scrap the ID cards scheme and databases and oppressive legislation and then they didnt then the electorate should have recourse to demand that they do it as promised.

UKIP are an independent party that are not co-opted and they represent my interests or at least some of them.

In my mind the idea of an integrated Europe has been completely ruined by these Globalist collectivist freaks so it the EU or its binding treaty and the way it goes about its business within its parliament and as Nigel Farage correctly stated the people of the UK gave their lives fighting so that the UK could be a sovereign nation and decide its own policies and hire and fire its own politicians as its people and its govt see fit and i do not accept being ruled by Herman Van Rompuy who is nothing more than a shill for Global Governance.

No thank you.
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #292 on: 26 April, 2010, 05:01:09 pm »
Well said, Peter.

I want my government back.

COMMANDO FORCES

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #293 on: 26 April, 2010, 05:02:44 pm »
Why does not wanting to be swallowed up by Europe equate to you hating Europe. 'europhobic middle-Englander' does this mean that people are scared of Europe?
When I visit countries in Europe I want to exxperience 'THAT' country and not a bastardised version on every country. I seem to recall many people slag off America for spreading all their stuff around the globe but those same people want Europe to be the same, weird.
Norway and Switzerland seem to be enjoying themselves, are those countries full of racist Euro haters!!!

I say this not to start a massive argument but to point out that some people just don't see the point of being swallowed up by Europe to be part of Europe.
I also seem to recall that at one stage they said there would be no more wars because we would be as one. That didn't work and the Yanks helped sort that out, even with the French passing secret flight routes over to the enemy at the time.
We would all prosper with one currency and interest rate, yes indeedy do, that works a treat doesn't it!

See what you've made me do, I must stop it, as I need to order a pizza (see how I support foods from Europe  ;))

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #294 on: 26 April, 2010, 05:09:06 pm »

We would all prosper with one currency and interest rate, yes indeedy do, that works a treat doesn't it!


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



*swoons*

COMMANDO FORCES

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #295 on: 26 April, 2010, 05:20:50 pm »
You got so upset Shark that you nearly vanished off the screen  :lol:

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #296 on: 26 April, 2010, 05:49:26 pm »
Vanished up my own self, more like  :lol: And, even further up myself I find the following nuggets...

“The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People vs. The Banks.” – Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875


“The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control…. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.” — Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976


“The eyes of our citizens are not sufficiently open to the true cause of our distress. They ascribe them to everything but their true cause, the banking system;The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson


“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right MAJOR CRISIS, and the nations will accept the NEW WORLD ORDER.” — David Rockefeller — Chairman, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)

Peter Wolf

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #297 on: 26 April, 2010, 06:03:44 pm »
The Euro is already failing because of the debacle in Greece which is a result of the greeks mishandling their economy and also because of bankers like Goldman Sachs but its very convoluted to explain.

Anyway the flaw in the system of a single currency is that other member states are expected to bail out the Greeks despite having their own individual economic problems and being in the middle of a downturn/recession but despite this the UK presntly will be forced to contribute 20 percent of whatever sum of money is allocated to bailing out Greece which is currently set at 35 billion GBP but could potentially be as high as 80 billion GBP and the UK is already 750 billion GBP in debt so we have to borrow more money from central banks that are privately owned which increases the debt slavery already imposed on us by the likes Of Gordon Brown and his destruction by default economic policies that were instigated by central privately owned and runned banks.

So at best its 7 billion GBP that will be removed from our economy or as much as 18 billion GBP

So what happens then other countries who have had their economies trashed by design follow suit like Portugal and spain and Italy etc ?

Are we going to be forced to help contribute funds to bailout those countries as well ?

Does anyone else see that this in itself is unsustainable if it is repeated ?

I might as well point out that if none of those countries had adopted the Euro then it wouldnt cost anyone else anything to bail them out as it wouldnt have been necessary to do so other than offer that country aid or loans on our own terms so the whole thing is going to be a very costly mistake all round but of course no one will realise this until its too late but it just goes to show how ill conceived the whole EU/single currency thing is.

The EU forcing its one size - fits all economic policies/straitjacket on its member states just isnt going to work and now the EU or its central governing body wants or proposes to dictate to the UK what its future budget will be domestically and the UK will be forced to follows its imposed austerity measures.

Its just wrong on so many levels.

The upshot of ALL the loans and bailouts that are being imposed on taxpayers both in the EU and the US is that it massively increases the transfer of wealth and assets into the hands of privately owned and operated central banks and gives them via their collective slush fund/holding company the IMF MASSIVE MASSIVE leverage over countries and entire continents which is of course the point of the preplanned and manufactured boom and bust economic cycles.The IMF has already financially ruined many many developing countries and the third world so now they are moving onto the West and what we are experiencing right now is the first stage in that process and it will get worse unless it is stopped.We are all in effect not that much different to the people of Haiti in this respect.

So in that sense Nick Clegg is a moron for proposing to scrap the pound and adopt the Euro.


So get this BanksterGangster Globalist fraudulent criminal collectivist NWO filth out of my adopted country and their representatives and shills because like LS i want my adopted country and my govt back.
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

Christov

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #298 on: 26 April, 2010, 06:19:36 pm »
Lots and lots of words.

What the LibDems are offering for your particular interests;

. The Freedom bill, which will return quite a few civil liberties that have been stripped from us under Labour and will most likely remain that way under the Tories. (Has been backed by Clegg since 2006)

. Electoral reform, which will take us out of this mockery we call democracy into a system that actually makes votes count. (The LibDems have been pushing this for a while, only for Labour and the Tories to smack it right back down)

. Mass elimination of bureaucrats throughout the public services, coupled with decentralising power from Whitehall.

. Taking a more central role in the EU instead of being a whiney little loner middleman for America.

. Having a special relationship with the US that doesn't have us fellating them constantly and getting smacked around like a whore.

I'm not trying to change your political views or anything, but I'm just putting a few points out there you might find interesting. Oh, and in the event Clegg does get in and he backpedals on these promises, just watch as the shit hits the fan.

We're in a situation where if we don't stop the Tories and Labour from tossing the reins to this country to each other, we'll continue to be this stunted little shell of a nation. We may not know how a LibDem government will work in practice, but it has to be a lot fucking better than the shambles the other two have made of the job.

As for the Euro, well, I'm skeptical, but fuck it, got to take the bad with the good, eh?

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #299 on: 26 April, 2010, 06:22:51 pm »
“Give me control of a country’s money, and I care not who writes its laws.”
~ Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Now his descendants want control of a world's money. Should we give it to them?