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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 816384 times)

House of Usher

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #585 on: 09 May, 2010, 11:22:02 am »
I place blame for the problem on the ignorance and selfishness of the general public.

Ah, ignorance. I read a touching analysis in The Guardian last week that described it as 'heartbreaking' that, in a survey, 70% of the British public agreed with the proposition that it is possible to reduce public spending without cutting front-line services.
STRIKE !!!

COMMANDO FORCES

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #586 on: 09 May, 2010, 12:42:23 pm »
The live news feeds are very interesting at the moment.
It all seems to coming to an end.

uncle fester

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #587 on: 09 May, 2010, 12:44:20 pm »
The live news feeds are very interesting at the moment.
It all seems to coming to an end.


The election stand-off or just things in general? :)

Robin Low

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #588 on: 09 May, 2010, 01:21:28 pm »
I place blame for the problem on the ignorance and selfishness of the general public.

Ah, ignorance. I read a touching analysis in The Guardian last week that described it as 'heartbreaking' that, in a survey, 70% of the British public agreed with the proposition that it is possible to reduce public spending without cutting front-line services.

Actually, I suspect that is possible in the NHS. Unfortunately, much of it would also involve the public stopping smoking, stopping drinking, stopping eating unhealthily, doing more exercise, not going to the GM or A&E for niffles and grazes, and so on.

There's a  general perception that we're over-run by expensive managers, but in reality services are so complex that they need managing. What's currently happening is that when senior people are retiring, all the work they did is being shared out to other people who are already over-loaded with work and have no time, without any increase in pay.

I often wonder what the public consider front-line services to be. I work in the labs, so the public doesn't see me, but 70% of diagnoses are based on lab results.

Regards

Robin

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #589 on: 09 May, 2010, 01:33:46 pm »
Hello uncle fester, it seems from what Brown is doing that he is resigned to leaving number 10.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #590 on: 09 May, 2010, 01:39:10 pm »
Unfortunately, much of it would also involve the public stopping smoking, stopping drinking, stopping eating unhealthily, doing more exercise,

But many of these people are still going to get cancer or develop other diseases requiring long-term care or expensive surgical solutions. At the same time, many of those who would otherwise obligingly die young or drop down dead from a coronary are going to live to an expensive old age requiring full time residential/nursing care.

Many (not you, I should add) people who put forward the argument that the NHS is burdened by treating the side effects of people's vices appear to believe that eliminating this behaviour simply allows you to subtract the total cost of those treatments from the NHS bill for the year. Is there any convincing work that projects the increased burdens on the state from increasing the life expectancy of the average Briton by a significant number of years?

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #591 on: 09 May, 2010, 01:54:35 pm »
My good lady works for the NHS and her mother retired from it a couple of years ago. Now from what they tell me, it is top heavy (by the way her mother was very high up) and the wastage of money is unbelievable, due to many factors!
The problem is, if you try to rock the boat by saying this, then say goodbye to your career.

Don't get me on about 'Team FUCKING Building exercises'  >:( anyway I'm moving off the subject ::)

Peter Wolf

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #592 on: 09 May, 2010, 02:15:44 pm »
Hello uncle fester, it seems from what Brown is doing that he is resigned to leaving number 10.

Good riddance.


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Dandontdare

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #593 on: 09 May, 2010, 02:19:47 pm »
Hello uncle fester, it seems from what Brown is doing that he is resigned to leaving number 10.

Good riddance.

I'd rather have a genetic amalgamation of Brown, Fred West and Piers Morgan running the country than Cameron!

M.I.K.

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #594 on: 09 May, 2010, 02:59:23 pm »
Isn't that what Cameron is?

Robin Low

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #595 on: 09 May, 2010, 03:27:25 pm »
Unfortunately, much of it would also involve the public stopping smoking, stopping drinking, stopping eating unhealthily, doing more exercise,

But many of these people are still going to get cancer or develop other diseases requiring long-term care or expensive surgical solutions. At the same time, many of those who would otherwise obligingly die young or drop down dead from a coronary are going to live to an expensive old age requiring full time residential/nursing care.

I can't point you to specific research, but epidemiologists do take this kind of stuff into account. And with specific regard to alcohol, when you add in the myriad social effects we start going beyond the NHS.

The aim is a longer life with fewer problems in old age as the result of healthier lifestyle when younger.

Regards

Robin

Peter Wolf

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #596 on: 09 May, 2010, 03:54:23 pm »
I used to get laughed at or thought of as weird by some because i ate healthily and didnt drink excessively or take drugs generally speaking  ;).I did a little bit as you have to live.

The not eating rubbish and checking the ingredients for additives etc was thought of as being particularly odd but my answer was and still is that i dont want to end up in a hospital bed when i am 50.


I cant wait to see if Mandelslime tries to do a deal with Tony Cameron.If Mandelslime joins the Conservatives then you know that nothing will have changed.I shall be watching this kind of thing very closely.


I place blame for the problem on the ignorance and selfishness of the general public. Blaming everything on the rich or on governments is so, so easy - I did it myself for years - but when it comes down to it most people vote for themselves, not for society. I think that's the root of the problem.


Regards

Robin

I dont think everything can be blamed exclusively on the electorate but i would say they are both equally to blame in different ways.The elites and govtsetc i mean.

Its easy to blame the people exclusively and it shows a clear lack of understanding to do so.In any case i am much less to blame because i constantly point out the corruption and criminality to raise awareness of how the system is wrong.Look what happens when i do that  :lol:  ::) .A chorus of disapproval and reflex actions caused by cognitive dissonance because a lot of people cant handle the truth.

You can lead a horse to water but you casnt force it to drink it.

Its like trying to blame the economic problems exclusively on the people and it doesnt stand up to any kind of scrutiny.
« Last Edit: 09 May, 2010, 03:55:56 pm by Peter Wolf »
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Robin Low

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #597 on: 09 May, 2010, 04:13:37 pm »
My good lady works for the NHS and her mother retired from it a couple of years ago. Now from what they tell me, it is top heavy (by the way her mother was very high up) and the wastage of money is unbelievable, due to many factors!
The problem is, if you try to rock the boat by saying this, then say goodbye to your career.

We all have our own experiences, but I'm already seeing the effects of removing manager-level posts and redistributing work to lower grades. I also tend to keep my ears open more than most of my colleagues, so I'm aware of the amount of work that goes on at higher levels. Those of us lower down the tree simply wouldn't able to operate without others taking on a massive amount of tedious but essential work. My other half and her sister also work in a related lab, and because of extra work they've had to take on, they can also attest to the amount of work staff higher up the tree have to cope with, and how necessary they are.

There's also an ongoing request in our Trust for ideas for saving money and reducing waste, all ideas welcome. We also do work for the private sector - because of our volume work, we're more cost effective than the private sector can ever possibly be, so we bring money into our department - this of course goes to the service not to staff.

It would be daft of me to suggest that in an organisation as large and diverse as the NHS there are aren't examples of bad practice and waste, but again I shy away from the easier targets.


Quote
Don't get me on about 'Team FUCKING Building exercises'  >:( anyway I'm moving off the subject ::)

Never been on or been offered a team building exercise - not aware of anyone else who has, either.

Public services are a subject worth discussing.


Regards

Robin

Robin Low

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #598 on: 09 May, 2010, 04:21:34 pm »
A chorus of disapproval and reflex actions caused by cognitive dissonance because a lot of people cant handle the truth.

*shrug* That could as easily be said about you as anyone else.

Regards

Robin

Robin Low

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #599 on: 09 May, 2010, 04:44:16 pm »
I've been trying to figure out who should be in charge...

Conservative - Votes: 10,706,647 -- 36.1%
Labour - Votes: 8,604,358 -- 29.0%
Liberal Democrat - Votes: 6,827,938 -- 23.0%

Only 36.1% of voters want the Conservative in charge.

Only 23% want the Lib Dems involved in government, but they're the ones who are the deciding factor.

If they both end up in charge, you disenfranchise ~40% of the population. If the Lib Dems and Labour got together, you'd disenfranchise ~48% of the population. Neither of those are insignificant minorities.

It seems to me that the real problem here is having to have a Prime Minister who is the leader of a party. What might be better is a cabinet whose members are elected by the MPs, with a PM elected by the elected cabinet.

Okay, that's a simplistic off-the-cuff idea. Come kick it around until it works.



Regards

Robin


« Last Edit: 09 May, 2010, 04:46:36 pm by Robin Low »