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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 818567 times)

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14295 on: 15 June, 2018, 08:57:08 am »
Yup. Democracy is great, all right.

Looks at Trump.

Looks at Brexit.

Looks at the only semblance of sanity in the entire British political system coming from the unelected House of Lords…


Ummm…
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14296 on: 15 June, 2018, 10:11:42 am »

All those wishing to participate in either the House of Commons or the House of Lords are required to make an oath of allegiance to the monarch before being permitted to do so.

"I (name of Member) swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God."

Don't believe in God? Fine, there's an oath for that, too.

"I (name of Member) do solemnly, sincerely, and truly declare and affirm, that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law."

Yaay! So one doesn't have to believe in a big invisible mega-Santa magic man living in the sky but one does have to believe in a woman who wears a gold hat because she's appointed by God and better than you.

No mention of the people or the country in this oath, just vile people promising to be loyal to a supposedly non-political leech.


Some say that the oath is "just tradition" and, if that's the case, why not do away with it, make it optional or re-word it to make it relevant to the idea of representative democratic organs rather than a pit of ravenous vipers?

In essence, the MP achieves position by first claiming to be loyal to the voters and then discards that position by swearing an oath to an unelected family of entitled spongers.

Jim and I rarely agree but in this instance he's spot on - "Democracy is great, all right."


TordelBack

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14297 on: 15 June, 2018, 10:23:40 am »
Yup. Democracy is great, all right.

"Worst form of government, except for mutter mutter mutter..."

Both Trump and Brexit represent attacks on democracy, rather than the form itself: in both cases the winners triumphed because of largely unchallenged lies.  The strength of democracy depends on an informed electorate, in turn on a robust and independent media.
« Last Edit: 15 June, 2018, 10:26:16 am by TordelBack »

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14298 on: 15 June, 2018, 11:40:36 am »
Just got a 'phone call from my solicitor in regards to my case against the police. The police admit to nothing but have offered a modest settlement.

I wasn't expecting anything, to be honest, because when one takes a government organisation to a government court for enforcing government whims, one is not in a fair or even tenable position.

I would much rather have sued the people involved for acting outside their authority but they have successfully hidden behind their uniforms and are using public funds to cover what they, personally, should pay.

It's a very minor victory leaving a sour taste in my mouth but at least I can move on now.


TordelBack

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14299 on: 15 June, 2018, 11:58:41 am »
Little victories, Shark - well done. 

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14300 on: 15 June, 2018, 12:16:45 pm »
Thanks, Tordels - that's what I'm trying to tell myself but it feels hollow, somehow.

Still, bright side, I may be able to treat myself to a con soon.


sheridan

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14301 on: 15 June, 2018, 12:37:09 pm »
Thanks, Tordels - that's what I'm trying to tell myself but it feels hollow, somehow.

Still, bright side, I may be able to treat myself to a con soon.

What's your local cons?

(alternative question - which con are you thinking of?)

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14302 on: 15 June, 2018, 01:04:06 pm »
Not sure yet, Sheridan - probably best not to decide until this circus is well and truly over and I have something tangible in my hand. I'd probably opt for one of the big ones like Thought Bubble or Glasgow so I can meet as many of you lovely people as possible - and preferably one with a FQP table I can hang out at for a bit. The way it's been going, tough, I might still be waiting this time next year. At the moment, I'm trying not to count my chickens.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14303 on: 15 June, 2018, 01:41:06 pm »
At the very least, they might think twice before overstepping the line again. 
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14304 on: 15 June, 2018, 01:55:33 pm »

I hope so, JBC, but I doubt it. They've ignored everything else and concentrated on one single breach of regulations (being late completing a single item of paperwork which I didn't even know about). "Never mind the false arrest and unlawful imprisonment, never mind the assaults and lies, never mind the "lost" cctv footage and perjury, we're sorry we didn't sign this obscure form in time."

Okay, okay... breathe, just breathe...


JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14305 on: 15 June, 2018, 02:19:18 pm »
Believe me, I have no love for the boys in blue, at least not my own country's version.  It seems to be held together by a toxic fusion of apathy, corruption, incompetence and above all self-preservation.

The major turning point for me in my attitude towards them was when I got up one morning to find my street closed off - on asking the nearest Garda about it, she refused to explain.  It later turned out that a Garda car had knocked down and killed a young guy of about 19, then bundled his body off to a distant station for some reason (the local one was two minutes away).

They later claimed the poor victim was 'known to them' and that he was involved with drugs - in fact he was a volunteer in a drug rehab centre and had a very good reputation locally.

On a way smaller scale, I was scammed for a grand and a half a couple of years ago - the bumbling con artist managed to leave me his real name, reg plate and bank details, though.  I personally tracked his identity and whereabouts in a matter of minutes, while the Gardai lost my evidence twice times over the course of a year and a half, before suddenly becoming interested again (he'd crossed someone they knew personally, I suspect) and finding out he was already in prison for similar crimes (which had been reported in national papers a year beforehand).
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14306 on: 15 June, 2018, 02:48:43 pm »
I remember that, JBC, did you ever get it sorted out?

I think that most people who join the police force do so out of a genuine desire to do good but that the institution has become so fundamentally corrupted towards enforcing legislation instead of upholding Law that little good can actually be done.

Put the government in charge of anything and it becomes a government tool, gets elevated almost to the point of sainthood. The police end up protecting the rulers and enforcing their whims at the cost of common or natural Law, and the rulers protect their protectors by legislating away their actual rights and responsibilities as human beings. A police officer is nothing more or less than a human being in a costume - a human being trained to believe that the costume they wear is somehow a magic suit bestowing elevated powers upon them and placing them above the law.

But I've waffled on about all this before - sorry to be so boring!

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14307 on: 15 June, 2018, 03:14:23 pm »
I think that most people who join the police force do so out of a genuine desire to do good but that the institution has become so fundamentally corrupted towards enforcing legislation instead of upholding Law that little good can actually be done.

One of the most depressing hours I've ever spent was a lunch break on a training course with a colleague from our sister paper in Grimsby who was an ex-copper. Crime (at least at that time) was endemic in Grimsby thanks to grinding poverty and massive unemployment due to the decimation of the fishing industry* — the conversation was summarised when he said "I joined the police to fight crime, but all I ended up doing was recording it."

Sadly, I don't think there's any way back to the Peel-ian ideal of the police, which is that they have no more or no fewer powers or authority than any member of the community, simply that they are delegated by the community to deploy those powers on a full-time basis and can be better trained in important skills like not getting their heads kicked in.

*Side note: another thing the pro-Brexit crowd in for a sore disappointment over, if they think the British fishing industry is coming back. The catch quotas are a product of the EU but are broadly sensible measures to avoid stock depletion. Who actually gets to catch those fish is, and always has been, a matter for the UK government. However, since they privatised the agency that assigns fishing rights, the large factory fleets completely outbid the far smaller UK operations (often one-man or family operations) for the rights. They not one extra fish will be landed by UK fishermen as a result of leaving the EU unless we abandon the quotas, and then the North Sea will get fished until it's empty.

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IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14308 on: 15 June, 2018, 03:22:44 pm »
Isn't it two or three major companies that basically get all the fish now, and almost all of that is landed directly at EU27 ports? THIS IS ALL GOING TO END WELL.

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #14309 on: 15 June, 2018, 03:40:46 pm »
In my view, it's government/EU subsidies which contribute most to overfishing. Large companies receive subsidies so that the EU fishing fleet is now two to three times larger than it needs to be for sustainable fishing. If a trawler comes home with a hold full of fish it can't sell the company doesn't have to worry because it can dump the catch and still get paid.

Remove these subsidies and fishermen will have to rely on what they catch to make money - the free market - overfishing would be less of a problem then because businesses would have to operate freely, without artificial income.

The reintroduction of the free market would solve many problems (whilst, granted, throwing up a few others), including the policing problem. If one has no choice but to accept the government monopoly then that monopoly has little incentive to do much more than ensure its income and preserve its position. Private policing agencies, on the other hand, would instead have to concentrate on providing a decent service to their subscribers or lose income to more efficacious outfits.