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Author Topic: Opinions are like arseholes…  (Read 9422 times)

Dog Deever

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #75 on: 20 August, 2010, 09:32:46 PM »
Quote
You do understand how wiki or in fact any encyclopedia works, right? ....
Though I do not hold a degree and have never attempted to try, i understand this.

 :o
Passive aggressive abuse- trying to sneakily call me stupid. This is pretty offensive stuff, stop bullying me.
:'( :'( :'(
Sob sob, where's my mammy or a mod.
( ;))

but seriously though

Quote
2. It is repeated over time.

my point exactly. Once instance doesn't equal bullying. Bullying is sustained. Saying someone is being a dick implies that it isn't always the case, only 'in this instance'. Saying someone is a dick implies they are always a dick.

And no, I don't take wikipedia as the be all and all of facts. Nor does any academic establishment, regardless of how much wiki fans defend it.

And yes, I understand many things. You do understand that this isn't a debating society right? It is an informal forum about the 2000ad comic, and we don't necessarily have to conform to your (or the debating societies) idea of how things should be discussed.

I think you have just proved that Jim wasn't 'bullying', though you may think he was being rude. As others have pointed out- it wasn't entirely undeserved, which raises the question- is it rude if it was deserved? The fact that no one was pulled up by mods for it would suggest it isn't perceived as such by those who have the power to judge these things.

Anyway- I'd rather have one poster worthy of respect here than 10 dicks who contribute fuck all but pouting, sulking and sounding off about offence and bullying whenever their opinion is challenged.
Just a little rough and tumble, Judge man.

Old Tankie

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #76 on: 20 August, 2010, 10:09:48 PM »
I really don't get this forum lark, and I'll quite happily admit to being a "grumpy old man", but, tell me, how the hell can an adult be "bullied" on a comics forum?  I've had a few ding-dongs on here myself in the past with fellow board members.  I think I've exchanged pleasantries with TB and DD, amongst others, but I've never taken offence and have always enjoyed the banter.  How can an adult be intimidated by someone they don't know, never met, never likely to meet, nameless and faceless, and who knows nothing about them??  I'm perplexed but then, as I said before, I am a grumpy old man and, to me, an internet forum is not the real world!!

Peter Wolf

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #77 on: 20 August, 2010, 10:35:28 PM »
I really don't get this forum lark, and I'll quite happily admit to being a "grumpy old man", but, tell me, how the hell can an adult be "bullied" on a comics forum?  I've had a few ding-dongs on here myself in the past with fellow board members.  I think I've exchanged pleasantries with TB and DD, amongst others, but I've never taken offence and have always enjoyed the banter.  How can an adult be intimidated by someone they don't know, never met, never likely to meet, nameless and faceless, and who knows nothing about them??  I'm perplexed but then, as I said before, I am a grumpy old man and, to me, an internet forum is not the real world!!

If you are new to the internet and online debate/arguing it can be quite disconcerting especially if it gets unpleasent.I found this myself when arguing with some on this forum or one or two in particular and on other forums but obviously since then i have been around the block a few times so things have changed a bit since then.

I can imagine how some wet behind the ears 20 year old kid might feel when they realise that they are totally out of their depth especially as has been pointed out earlier they are not used to being challenged about their opinions.There are a lot of dumbed down kids out there and intelligence and aggressive debate could be quite intimidating to them especially since they wouldnt have learnt debating/arguing skills at school or University.

Its something that you can only learn the hard way but you wont get very far if you are a bit precious and delicate.
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Van Dom

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #78 on: 20 August, 2010, 10:41:34 PM »
Yikes. Just catching up on some threads that I wasn't able to look at during the week. Bad times here.
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Tweak72

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #79 on: 20 August, 2010, 10:50:45 PM »
Quote
You do understand how wiki or in fact any encyclopedia works, right? ....
Though I do not hold a degree and have never attempted to try, i understand this.

 :o
Passive aggressive abuse- trying to sneakily call me stupid. This is pretty offensive stuff, stop bullying me.
:'( :'( :'(
Sob sob, where's my mammy or a mod.
( ;))


LoL

Quote
2. It is repeated over time.

my point exactly. Once instance doesn't equal bullying. Bullying is sustained. Saying someone is being a dick implies that it isn't always the case, only 'in this instance'. Saying someone is a dick implies they are always a dick.

TBH yes it does. Once or many times such name calling can be considered an act of bullying the article I quoted says "There are various types of bullying, but most have three things in common" and then lists those three things but that does not limit the definition of bullying behavior. I know this because I am a Union Rep and have had to deal with cases that involve bullying. from individuals to groups of people and even if you only do it once you still have done it.

Quote
And no, I don't take wikipedia as the be all and all of facts. Nor does any academic establishment, regardless of how much wiki fans defend it.

and you are quite right to not use it as the only source of information Even the Encyclopedia Britannica has mistakes and incorrect information because information changes over time. however accusing me of editing the page out of hand for the benefit of making my point , with no proof I might add, was IMO a bit off. If you where being flippant then i missed the humor.

Quote
And yes, I understand many things. You do understand that this isn't a debating society right? It is an informal forum about the 2000ad comic, and we don't necessarily have to conform to your (or the debating societies) idea of how things should be discussed.


as I said, my response was due to the insinuation that I had edited the Wiki page.

And yes, I do understand that this is not a debating society. My point was if some one states that they are engaged in discussion, testing opinions and reasoning on a discussion forum then they should know that however vigorous the discussion then making inflammatory statements is to walk a very fine line. making the simile to male genitalia is well over that line.

If Jim needs to take a time out, fine. That is an very adult thing to do.

But perhaps he should of taken a quiet step back rather than making a grandiose announcement about being here less. Just a thought.

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M.I.K.

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #80 on: 20 August, 2010, 10:59:19 PM »
There are various types of bullying, but most have three things in common:
1. It is deliberately hurtful behaviour.
2. It is repeated over time.
3. There is an imbalance of power, which makes it hard for those being bullied to defend themselves."

Which is pretty much how I defined it on the first page of this thread, (except for the hurtful behaviour bit which is really obvious). Generally speaking you'd need all three things to class it as bullying. It's only an argument/fight otherwise.

It's impossible to have an imbalance of power between two people arguing on an internet forum unless one's a moderator or something.
« Last Edit: 20 August, 2010, 11:02:57 PM by M.I.K. »

Tiplodocus

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #81 on: 20 August, 2010, 11:54:49 PM »
Oh I definitely don't think Jim was bullying just being a bit rude (as I've said probably exasperated). But I don't think there's any need to walk on eggshells. If you thought somebdy was displaying "gross ignorance" then why not use those words. Why say "acting like a dick".

(I do realise this is rich coming from someone who just called his boss a 'syphlitic old whore'. Good job I'd had my Performance Appraisal before we went to the pub.)
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

Dog Deever

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #82 on: 21 August, 2010, 12:42:41 AM »
Quote
as I said, my response was due to the insinuation that I had edited the Wiki page.

Aw c'mon Tweak man, there was no insinuation- I didn't allude to anything, I said it plain and simple.
Of course I don't believe you typed that essay up 10 minutes before posting (and I don't believe for a minute that you thought that's what I was saying). It was a tongue in cheek comment on the fact that anyone can make/ edit a wiki entry and you cannot compare Wikipedia to an real encyclopaedia, which is why it is not an acceptable reference in academia. Sure I was oversimplifying and being a bit daft, but only to make a point, and I think it was fairly obvious that I wasn't being totally serious. Besides, I don't hide behind insinuation- I say it as I see it and I'm not afraid to say what I think, nor do a give a shit what anyone thinks of me for doing it. If you don't like me or my posts, stick me on the ignore, I'll live and won't notice anyway.

Define 'hurtful'.
It's subjective.
Just because some idiot playacts being offended specifically to get someone into trouble doesn't really mean they have been bullied. I made my protest at your passive-aggressive post in jest (and it was an insinuation that I was stupid- it can't really be taken any other way), but seriously- you just perpetrated what you have spoken out against, that's hypocrisy plain and simple - I didn't take offence because I'm not a moron, but I was attempting to illustrate how easy it was to claim bullying- another guy could have called you for it and under YOUR OWN DEFINITION they would have been right- so think about that.

I work in education with kids that folk consider delinquents and also work with prisoners. Like TB, I see real bullying in real life more than you've had hot dinners- and it is far and away different from someone saying they think 'x' is a dick. Honestly, this is whining, panty-waist shit. Just because some arse writes their definition doesn't make it correct- talk to someone who has been properly bullied to find out what real bullying is.

Seeing as we are discussing the whole affair in the open like adults, I wasn't going to say this to keep the peace, but I feel like I need to for my own sanity, so here goes...

What is really getting my dander up is the fact that some people are lining up to have a kick at Jim now he's gone, and yet none of you had the balls to tackle him mano-a-mano while he was here to defend his position.
I'm finding this distasteful as fuck, not to mention cuntery of the worst kind- it's just cowardice plain and simple. People seem to be getting on their moral high horses about it, but their principles were oh so important that they didn't tackle him about their perception of him being a bully when he was here.
Why not?

My suspicion is that there was a fear of getting their arses handed on a plate because it's bullshit and they know it. It's despicable, and in all seriousness I mean it. If they hadn't the testicular fortitude to say it to the man, then they don't have any moral right to whine about it now. IMO- put up at the time, or shut up entirely.
I would imagine that even if he was thinking about changing his mind, he certainly won't now that the woodlice have crawled out of the woodwork to kick him when he isn't looking.

I thought this was a great place full of good people, but I'm certainly going to have to revise my view of that. If anyone feels I'm having a go at them personally, I probably am- If the cap fits then pop it on at a jaunty angle. If this upsets anyone or causes any offence- bite me, I couldn't give a shit.

And no- I'm not defending a mate, I don't know Jim at all, I've barely had a conversation with the guy since I joined up years ago and until this new version of the board came into being (where you can see if anyone is ignoring you) I assumed that he had me on the old 'killfile' for this very reason- so in the back of my mind, I was always a bit suspicious that there was no love for me with him. I would defend any one of the people who have earned my respect here just as vigorously because I believe what is going on now is just plain wrong, and all because of some mewling and puking from dicks who can't handle their public opinions being questioned.

Frankly, I'm extremely disappointed.
« Last Edit: 21 August, 2010, 12:48:18 AM by Dog Deever »
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Roger Godpleton

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #83 on: 21 August, 2010, 01:13:52 AM »
Sorry to get all paranoid DD, but you don't mean me, do you?
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Woolly

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #84 on: 21 August, 2010, 02:22:04 AM »
This thread is starting to turn into the very reason why Jim has left!

Heres how i see this board...
It's like being in a pub with the mates i wish i had. People i can talk to (or just listen to) about Tooth and comics in general.

Things will be said that i dont agree with, but it doesnt matter.. because were in a pub, and chances are we've had a few drinks already.
No matter whats said, i fuckin love you guys, and a difference of opinion or a strongly felt argument only strengthens my love for you all: i feel i get to know you all better from your statements.

Personal offence should never be taken from these hallowed pages! Were all adults here (with the possible exception of the 'God of drawing' guy) and if we just think before posting then situations such as this can easily be avoided.*

I dunno what i'm really trying to say here, i just love 2000AD with all my heart, and i love this board with all my heart, and i love you - the boarders - with all my heart! Threads like this depress me  :(

Just... think before you post, eh?




*Admittedly, i am drunk. And not thinking before i post! I feel no shame in my hipocrisy!  :D

Peter Wolf

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #85 on: 21 August, 2010, 02:28:32 AM »


What is really getting my dander up is the fact that some people are lining up to have a kick at Jim now he's gone, and yet none of you had the balls to tackle him mano-a-mano while he was here to defend his position.
I'm finding this distasteful as fuck, not to mention cuntery of the worst kind- it's just cowardice plain and simple. People seem to be getting on their moral high horses about it, but their principles were oh so important that they didn't tackle him about their perception of him being a bully when he was here.
Why not?

My suspicion is that there was a fear of getting their arses handed on a plate because it's bullshit and they know it. It's despicable, and in all seriousness I mean it. If they hadn't the testicular fortitude to say it to the man, then they don't have any moral right to whine about it now. IMO- put up at the time, or shut up entirely.
I would imagine that even if he was thinking about changing his mind, he certainly won't now that the woodlice have crawled out of the woodwork to kick him when he isn't looking.

I thought this was a great place full of good people, but I'm certainly going to have to revise my view of that. If anyone feels I'm having a go at them personally, I probably am- If the cap fits then pop it on at a jaunty angle. If this upsets anyone or causes any offence- bite me, I couldn't give a shit.

And no- I'm not defending a mate, I don't know Jim at all, I've barely had a conversation with the guy since I joined up years ago and until this new version of the board came into being (where you can see if anyone is ignoring you) I assumed that he had me on the old 'killfile' for this very reason- so in the back of my mind, I was always a bit suspicious that there was no love for me with him. I would defend any one of the people who have earned my respect here just as vigorously because I believe what is going on now is just plain wrong, and all because of some mewling and puking from dicks who can't handle their public opinions being questioned.

Frankly, I'm extremely disappointed.

I might as well say what i think.

DD:I have agreed with your opinion here as its pretty much the same as mine on the subject of what defines bullying and all the rest of it.

I think everyone should STFU talking about Jim now that he is no longer present and by this i mean the whys and wherefores of Jim calling someone a Dick because its not the right thing to do and its beginning to cause more unrest and bad feeling and i can only see it getting worse like it already is before it gets any better for anyone.Damage limitation.

Thats what i think.




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TordelBack

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #86 on: 21 August, 2010, 07:55:23 AM »
Peter's not wrong.  I think everything of value has been said, and now we're just bickering.  I for one will shut up.

Wake

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #87 on: 21 August, 2010, 08:25:43 AM »
It's impossible to have an imbalance of power between two people arguing on an internet forum unless one's a moderator or something.

I disagree on this point. Someone with lots of posts is perceived in a different light from a newbie, and the newbie may assume that the other poster has the support from other boarders. It's exactly the same as the way a pub regular may seem to have more power than someone new, except that it's even more obvious who is new and who has been here for years.

Noisybast

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #88 on: 21 August, 2010, 11:16:51 AM »
...it's even more obvious who is new and who has been here for years.

Not in my local. I wear a t-shirt that shows how many pints I've ever drank there. :)

Tweak72

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Re: Opinions are like arseholes…
« Reply #89 on: 21 August, 2010, 11:31:59 AM »
Dog: if you where being tongue in cheek about the Wiki page then it was not obvious. If I misinterpreted it I apologies but you didn't make it obvious. What did come across was you accusing me of altering something to benefit myself and my point of view.

I am not being passive aggressive. Calling some one a name during an argument and then saying it is part of  discussion and debate, that's passive aggressive.

come to think of it accusing some one of altering a wiki page and then saying its a was a joke, i]that's[/i] passive aggressive as well.

And the thing is people aren't lining up to kick Jim. Most people either agree with his conduct, or think that he possible said something a bit silly when wound up and ended up being a bit rude.

And I do not need to talk to some one who has experienced real bullying. I am someone who has experienced real bullying on a daily basis for most of my school life. And for at one time I was a bully.

And during the thread at the time i did say some thing

"However, James E is just pointing out another POV. One in which is not quite so pleased with how the way in which the ret con is going. If you dont agree thats fine but at least respect the fact that there are other POVs rather than trying to bully him in to submission."



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