Last movie watched...

[JOE SOAP]

Caught bits of Soldier last night, there were a couple of references that sounded familiar (the Tannhauser Gate being one) so I gave it a wiki, and learned it was apparently written and intended as a spin-off from Blade Runner. The soldiers are essentially supposed to be the replicants, keeping the peace on the off world colonies. Didn't watch the whole thing so don't know if that angle was done away with, but it looked like fun in a cheddar sort of way.

It's a sidequel plus it was written by David Peoples, the script-doctor on BR.

[Professor Bear]

You can make pretty much any film's story sound dodgy if you spin it a certain way. What's that one about Batman? 'Millionaire playboy gets his kicks by assaulting the disadvantaged and the mentally ill'...

Except the Burton flicks were fucking terrible films, too, so I'm not sure what your argument is.  The only movie that comes close to being deconstructed with this description is Dark Knight, which is actually all about Wayne dealing with the mentally ill people he inspires one way or another and how he'd rather stop doing it - it is about Batman and how he impacts his world, while First Class is not about anything.  It starts by creating a juxtaposition between Xavier's privilege and concentration camp victims, yet does nothing with it - in fact, against all reason it's the guy we first see explaining to us that his servants usually bring him hot chocolate who ends up being the voice of experience and wisdom, rather than the man who's survived the Holocaust, successfully integrated into society, and uses his powers to track war criminals.  First Class has nothing to say, it's just some stuff that happens and I already admitted that it looks fantastic - my issue is with its - intentional or unintentional - subtext where a rich white conservative tells an Auschwitz survivor to get over it and do what society wants him to do rather than what makes him comfortable, even though what makes him comfortable is preventing a Nazi from starting a nuclear war.

But the scene with the attack on the CIA compound demonstrates that Azazel can survive a fall if he teleports in time... Unless you're referring to Angel, Havok and Banshee, in which case the fall isn't hundreds of feet from what I recall - and they land on sand rather than concrete.

That scene also establishes internal logic for the film - you fall and you go splat and die.  Later, the characters you mention do indeed fall for hundreds of feet through the air because acceleration of a free falling object is 32 feet per second per second and they had time enough to have a wee chat before teleporting several feet above solid ground.  Unless you're suggesting the sand made a difference - but hitting water at terminal velocity would kill you just as sure as hitting solid steel.  Sand?  You're also pizza if you hit that.

I have no idea why I'm dissecting the logic of this piece of shit movie: there's a bit where the lass says "I'll never tell them where you are, Charles" despite the fact that Charles is quite clearly living in his family mansion.

[Van Dom]

Took the boys to see Kung Fu Panda 2 today - great movie, really enjoyable, and even my 3 year old sat still for the lot of it and didn't start running up and down the steps and in and out of the aisles like he usually does.

I was a bit disappointed though. Being a big Jean Claude van Damme fan, I was happy to hear he was finally branching out a bit and doing a bit of voice-acting work. And he did a good job of Master Croc...there just wasn't much of it. I'd say he had 4 or 5 lines tops. I was expecting way more.

But nevertheless - top flick! Will watch again.

[Robin Low]

That's not really a nitpick as much as it is a failing of the script to realise that the film is essentially the story of an old-money white protestant conservative telling a jewish death camp survivor to get over it.

Alternatively, it's a story about one man understanding another man's pain and begging him not to be consumed by it, but still believing in him and calling him friend even when he is consumed.

Mostly, however, it's yet another story proving that comic and movie writers don't have the first fucking clue about evolution or science beyond a few buzzwords... but also proving that some of them are rather good at providing a couple of hours of worthwhile entertainment.

Regards

Robin

[JOE SOAP]

First Class has nothing to say, it's just some stuff that happens and I already admitted that it looks fantastic - my issue is with its - intentional or unintentional - subtext where a rich white conservative tells an Auschwitz survivor to get over it and do what society wants him to do rather than what makes him comfortable, even though what makes him comfortable is preventing a Nazi from starting a nuclear war.

What is your issue with that though, is it just that you don't personally like it? I don't see a problem with those characterisations, it's what fuels their personal conflict or maybe you'd prefer they were more black and white morally? X-Men, Fantastic Four & Avengers et al. have always been about maintaining the status quo, they aren't radicals, it's always the villains who are the radicals in comics that's why they're more interesting. Superheroes are like council members, city fathers and mayors...boring fucks.

[Mister Pops]

Just watched a claymation film on Film4. It was called Max and Mary. It was perfect

[Professor Bear]

Mostly, however, it's yet another story proving that comic and movie writers don't have the first fucking clue about evolution or science beyond a few buzzwords

Is that really an issue with any kind of entertainment in and of itself?  If you apply actual working real-world science to all entertainment rather than its own internal logic, you'll pretty much render all sci-fi invalid.  I just watched a movie where a dude with a bionic heart kung-fu'd his way from San Fran to LA and which ended on a shot identical to the final shot from Rush Hour 3, and I'm about to watch the season 1 finale of Buck Rogers in the 21st Century - I have no problems with dumb entertainment, but I do have a problem with entertainment that thinks I'm dumb.  By all means be a stupid movie, but trust me to be able to keep track of how your fantasy world works, please.

What is your issue with that though, is it just that you don't personally like it? I don't see a problem with those characterisations, it's what fuels their personal conflict or maybe you'd prefer they were more black and white morally?

I didn't like it, as it happens, and said as much.  As for the characterisations, they're pretty black and white, certainly: Magneto wants revenge on a man who
1 is a Nazi
2 killed Magneto's mum in front of him while laughing
3 tortured magneto as a child to see what would happen
4 murders a child in front of his friends
5 murders dozens of CIA agents for pretty much no reason at all
6 wants to start a nuclear war
7 fails so he decides to wipe out the Russian and American fleets
8 aided in genociding the jews
9 is actively trying to genocide humanity

That's pretty black and white, but from the wrong direction, as Magneto is clearly in the right yet it's Charles we're supposed to sympathize with despite his doing nothing to earn that indulgence beyond that he is Professor X from X-Men, except this being an origin story he isn't even that.  Magneto here is entirely justified and if he doesn't kill the baddie millions will die - there's a deep and complex moral argument to be explored here, but the entire story hinges on your accepting that Magneto is bad because he's Magneto and Prof X is good because he's Prof X and I am sorry but I think that this is weak sauce.

Not all bad, though: Michael Ironside's delivery of "God help us all" was great.  As was the Rooskie cap'n's "Congratulations, Comrade, you have saved us all from a nuclear war - take him to the brig."

[Dandontdare]

Human Centipede. As the person who lent it to me put it: "Why? Why would anyone make this?"

Just read that the BBFC have refused a certificate for Human Centipede II - They said that no amount of cuts would make it suitable, and that it poses a "real, as opposed to a fanciful, risk that harm is likely to be caused to potential viewers"

[Robin Low]

Mostly, however, it's yet another story proving that comic and movie writers don't have the first fucking clue about evolution or science beyond a few buzzwords

Is that really an issue with any kind of entertainment in and of itself? 

No, not really, which was why I included the follow-on comment about entertainment.

Regards

Robin

[Robin Low]

SPOILERS**********

That's pretty black and white, but from the wrong direction, as Magneto is clearly in the right yet it's Charles we're supposed to sympathize with despite his doing nothing to earn that indulgence beyond that he is Professor X from X-Men, except this being an origin story he isn't even that.  Magneto here is entirely justified and if he doesn't kill the baddie millions will die - there's a deep and complex moral argument to be explored here, but the entire story hinges on your accepting that Magneto is bad because he's Magneto and Prof X is good because he's Prof X and I am sorry but I think that this is weak sauce.

That's not what happens though. It's clear from the very first scene that we're intended to sympathise with Magneto, and it's reinforced throughout the movie - it's blindingly clear where he's coming from, and given what we know of human nature in the real world, and human nature in the movie, we can easily understand his reasoning.

Also, Magneto's reason for killing Shaw is ultimately revenge, not saving millions of lives. He could easily have slowly bound and secured Shaw with metal just as he did Emma Frost. Even so, it's hard if not impossible to condemn him for it.

By contrast, Xavier is not set up simply as a good guy for us to root for - he's egotistical, inconsiderate of his sister's feelings (perhaps because he genuinely has kept out of her mind), and has a remarkably naive faith in human, and mutant, nature. And then there's more than a touch of arrogance. Arguably, his faith in human nature is one of his redeeming features... and that is shown to be clearly diminished by the end the film as evidenced by his final action.

The story quite clearly does not hinge on Xavior good, Magneto bad. The story, at the points where it is most interesting, hinges on a man who is being consumed by his pain, and the man who will always be his friend, even when they fight.

Outside that, the film has some other interestings things going on. There are issues of misogeny (women are the playthings of powerful men, they get seduced by cheesy lines, patronised by their brothers, they fetch ice for drinks, and they have no place in the CIA). There's criticism of the military (they mindlessly follow orders, are incabable of acting without new orders, when they avert WWIII they are punished for it, and when cowardly bureaucrats order them to commit murder they do it without hesitation). Sadly, there's no time for these things to be developed, as least not if you want to satisfy the target audience.


Regards

Robin

[radiator]

The sexism point is a fair one, which initially troubled me, but I kind of saw it as an homage to the swinging 60s/Austin Powers/Bond girl vibe they were going for. It doesnt excuse it though to be fair. As for the 'women have no place in the CIA' line, were clearly supposed to be laughing/rolling our eyes at the men in that scene.

Regarding the observation about xavier hiding out in his family mansion, this is a man who can wipe people's memories and create mental projections.

[Robin Low]

The sexism point is a fair one, which initially troubled me, but I kind of saw it as an homage to the swinging 60s/Austin Powers/Bond girl vibe they were going for. It doesnt excuse it though to be fair. As for the 'women have no place in the CIA' line, were clearly supposed to be laughing/rolling our eyes at the men in that scene.

I felt that it was an attempt to make a point about the attitudes of time rather than being a homage, but that there was no room (or need or willingness) to develop it as a theme.

Regards

Robin

[Professor Bear]

Arguably, his faith in human nature is one of his redeeming features... and that is shown to be clearly diminished by the end the film as evidenced by his final action.

I agree if you mean that bit on the beach after he's been accidentally shot and needs to be the better man he keeps harping on at Magneto to be, yet instead gets on his high horse with a clearly repentant Magneto and tells him in no uncertain terms to go fuck himself, completely undermining any kind of moral authority he might have possessed until that point.  The entire movie he tells Magneto to get over it, yet when the shoe's on the other - now crippled - foot, it's "fuck you, buddy - NO FORGIVENESS!"

Also, Shaw couldn't be restrained because it wasn't the fact that he was free that made him a danger, it was the nuclear energy he'd stored and intended to release after having his natter with Magneto.  He was going to explode to kill as many people as he could and that's why he had to buy the farm.  Regardless of his motivations, Magneto had little choice in the matter.

His immediate and unconvincing heel turn after he leaves the sub and puts on an Irish accent, on the other hand?  I have no idea what prompted that.  He just does because he's Magneto and Magneto is the bad guy.

[Robin Low]

SPOILERS*************************

Arguably, his faith in human nature is one of his redeeming features... and that is shown to be clearly diminished by the end the film as evidenced by his final action.

I agree if you mean that bit on the beach after he's been accidentally shot and needs to be the better man he keeps harping on at Magneto to be, yet instead gets on his high horse with a clearly repentant Magneto and tells him in no uncertain terms to go fuck himself, completely undermining any kind of moral authority he might have possessed until that point.  The entire movie he tells Magneto to get over it, yet when the shoe's on the other - now crippled - foot, it's "fuck you, buddy - NO FORGIVENESS!"

You're rephrasing - as negatively as possible - what's actually said to suit your argument. The point Xavier is trying to make to Magneto is much simpler and quite clear: his actions will have consequences and he cannot shift the blame to others.

The bit I was referring to was Xavier's final action of the film, namely the memory wipe, demonstrating his lessening trust of humans.

Also, Shaw couldn't be restrained because it wasn't the fact that he was free that made him a danger, it was the nuclear energy he'd stored and intended to release after having his natter with Magneto.  He was going to explode to kill as many people as he could and that's why he had to buy the farm.  Regardless of his motivations, Magneto had little choice in the matter.

I'd need to see the film again, but given that Xavier didn't want Shaw killed and was also fully aware of the situation one presumes there was another option. While Xavier obviously didn't want Magneto to kill him, he was hardly going to let Shaw go.


Regards

Robin

[JOE SOAP]

His immediate and unconvincing heel turn after he leaves the sub and puts on an Irish accent, on the other hand?  I have no idea what prompted that.  He just does because he's Magneto and Magneto is the bad guy.

I don't think Fassbender needs to 'put on' an Irish accent, he is Irish.