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Author Topic: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film  (Read 222982 times)

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1875 on: 19 December, 2015, 11:58:56 PM »
ven), but Abrams was allegedly unhappy with the actresses' performance and drastically cut her role down. Which would explain why she suddenly disappears from the film.[/spoiler]

If that is the case, then why essentially build the trailers around her VO? Given that Lupita would have given her performance yonks ago so that the animation could be completed, it seems odd that so much of it made it to the trailers if Abrams wasn't happy (plus he's denied this, FWIW). I think you can detect a great deal of frantic cutting in this movie quite late on, presumably to speed things along or to tighten focus - the toy aisles are full of stuff that doesn't really appear, for example.

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1876 on: 20 December, 2015, 12:14:11 AM »
Apologies for that last post, spoiler tags went awry and I missed the edit window.

blackmocco

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1877 on: 20 December, 2015, 12:24:13 AM »
Quote
Oh don't all start moaning about it. Fucking hell!
What he said!

Here's some more moaning for you guys:

Why was Rey selected to locate Luke? They barely know who she is.

Rey being an ace star pilot comes out of nowhere and makes no sense whatsoever, given that it is firmly established that she has never travelled far from Jakku. Eg: her reaction to arriving on a lush, non-desert planet.

Why such an emotional scene between Leia and Rey? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't even have a single scene together before that, did they? And yes, I know they were pushing a surrogate father/daughter thing between her and Han, but they'd known each other for like what? An afternoon? You could say the same of Luke and Kenobi in the original movie, but that's not quite true, as it is established that Luke had known 'Old Ben' for many years prior to the events of the film.

The fact that Finn lied about his level of knowledge regarding Starkiller Base was brushed off as a jokey thing, but if you think about it for a second, he essentially jeapordises the mission (and thus the fate of the Resistance and the galaxy) because he lied so he could rescue Rey? That's a total dick move and really weakens his character in my opinion. It's also another thing that portrays the characters in the film as not really seeming to take the Starkiller as gravely seriously as it warrants, contributing to an overall lack of peril and tension. Damn I wish that whole thing wasn't in the movie.

And finally, they better have a damn good reason for why Luke was in exile. And before anyone says it, yes, I'm aware a reason is given in the film, but the way it's presented reduces Luke Skywalker to a coward who abandons the galaxy to The First Order's domination. As I say, they better have a damn good reason, but I suspect they haven't, because from doing a bit of research it appears that the reason he's in exile was changed when Abrams rewrote Michael Arndt's script.

Honestly wish I could gloss over these things like the rest of you - and if it were just one or two things I could - but when it is dozens of plotholes, inconsistencies and contrivances piled up like this it makes it impossible for me to ignore. It's not nit-picking, it's fundamental story problems. I expect better writing than this.

Regarding Maz Canata(?): Apparently she was supposed to have a much bigger role (I think she was supposed to tag along with Han, Rey and Co on the Falcon even), but Abrams was allegedly unhappy with the actresses' performance and drastically cut her role down. Which would explain why she suddenly disappears from the film.

Not going to disagree with much of this, Rad, but - and I'm just making assumptions here - I'm pretty confident Rey's backstory is going to be explained. My personal theory - she was one of Luke's surviving students and sent to Jakku as safety, her mind wiped via Jedi Force thingamabobs. Would explain why she has such innate powers. Would also explain Ren's fascination with the girl.

Luke had never met Ben before their encounter in A New Hope though. He'd only heard about him from local stories.

Agree about the Starkiller thing but Finn lying to infiltrate the base strengthens his character, in my opinion. Of course it's rash and foolhardy, but it also shows the lengths he'll go to to rescue Rey. Seemed pretty heroic, (but yes, stupid) to me.

As for Luke, I'm assuming he fled out of guilt and if he's been isolated living out there, surely he's unaware what's been going on in the rest of the galaxy...?

I would say go see it again. I was pretty underwhelmed with it Thursday but went again last night with work and immensely enjoyed it. Once your expectations are out of the way, it's easier to look past the stuff that's not floating your boat. Yes, the same problems are in there but I found the good more than outweighed the bad. At the end of the day, it's not a five star movie, but I'd say it's a decent four. It gets more right than wrong and it's a good foundation now to build on top of.
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radiator

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1878 on: 20 December, 2015, 12:58:53 AM »
Whereas I don't think we'll ever get a satisfactory backstory for Rey and put the weird question mark around her (which I believe is unintentional) down to plot holes created by Abrams rewriting the script.

She clearly remembers her previous life and family or she wouldn't be waiting for them to return. If she is somehow related to Skywalker or Solo, then what possible purpose does it serve to leave that revelation for a sequel?

While I liked the actress, and the character had some great moments, Rey is really problematic for me. She's wishy-washy, underdeveloped and full of contradictions.
« Last Edit: 20 December, 2015, 01:00:57 AM by radiator »

Colin YNWA

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1879 on: 20 December, 2015, 07:50:34 AM »
I'm wake, I've slept well and I'm still going to rant... so sit back relax and settle in (or more sensibly skip to the next post)

I have no problem (well I do but I'll come to that) with a lot of the longer term plot holes. Who exactly is Rey, Max Von Sydow, what's Luke's lightsabre doing there, who exactly is bloody well related to who etc etc (and there's a LOT of etcs) as its clear that you are not going to see a film when you see this, its clear that you are seeing the first part of a series and therefore its a good thing (in that context) that there is mystery and intrigue built up. There should be questions (in that context) to be dangled in front of you, after all Empire did that so very, very well BUT, but should the first film of the series lack a sense of completion and being so unselfcontained (I'm stitching bits of words together there aren't I) as this. There were too damned many of them. It left this as a single film feeling pretty bloody insubstancial.

The worst bit of the film the whole new bigger new Death Star tired guff was the one thing that held this as a single piece of entertainment.Which is a massive shame as, as I say it was annoying guff.

Also this works in context and something that we see in a LOT of films these days but should we. Shouldn't a film be made to tell you a self contained story, that, no problem, draws you into something bigger? That's a larger debate and not fair to drag this one example into out of that context, but it bugs me. Empire, for all the things it dangled hung together as a much more satisfying single story.

Some of the other dangling things also had the problem of unhinging the internal logic of the franchise as a whole. So while I'm sure we'll get to understand stuff, or at least have an explanation given to us, one that may or may not be worth the wait. Specifically what the heck is going on with the force and who and how its manipulated. It was all over the place. Rey I'm confident will turnout to be Yoda's daughter or some such as being Luke's is too obvious surely but Neil Gaiman's ... I mean Kylo's ability, even given we know he had some training, seemed a little ... developed to me. Its acknowledged he needs to complete his training at the end but I got no sense of that at times ... at others yes, it was inconsistent. Maybe that was meant to reflect his inter conflict?

Don't say I didn't warn you when it comes to the next movie and we learn that there are more Midiclorians out there or something.

Join me next rant as I pick apart one scene I'm probably misremembering that for me summaries many of the films problems.



TordelBack

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dweezil2

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1881 on: 20 December, 2015, 12:08:08 PM »
Plot holes and contrivances aside, I still prefered it to those terrible prequels-so job done, I guess!

Radbacker

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1882 on: 20 December, 2015, 01:22:14 PM »
F*&k yeah, now that was a StarWars movie.  Loved it and glad I'm not stupid for not knowing who Rey is.

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JOE SOAP

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1883 on: 20 December, 2015, 02:21:27 PM »
To add a few familiar voices to the discourse.

RED LETTER MEDIA

JPMaybe

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1884 on: 20 December, 2015, 02:29:31 PM »
I liked it for the most part.  Most of the coincidences I found fairly forgivable.  What follows are my main whinges:

Most irritating for me is the complete lack of context and scale (predictably enough for a numbers-obsessed geek like me, I suppose, but still).  There's no equivalent of the Death Star conference room scene in ANH, which establishes who the Empire are, the importance of the Death Star, etc.

Instead we're left with no real idea of the relationship between the New Order, Resistance, and Republic.  No idea what the importance of the system the Starkiller destroyed is, and the coincidence that really did bug me, why the hell are the heroes in the same system? Was it picked to destroy *because* they were there?  Why not have a few lines of exposition saying so?  There's also absolutely none of the resonance of Alderaan's destruction, which is integral to ANH's plot.

The scale then- for fuck's sake JJ it's called Star Wars, not Star Skirmishes.  Why not show us the republic fleet?  Did you really have to stick so slavishly to ANH that all we see of the Resistance is a couple dozen snub-fighters?
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TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1885 on: 20 December, 2015, 03:44:22 PM »
To add a few familiar voices to the discourse.

RED LETTER MEDIA

Those guys are always great value.


Hawkmumbler

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1887 on: 20 December, 2015, 09:33:22 PM »
To add a few familiar voices to the discourse.

RED LETTER MEDIA

Those guys are always great value.
'Patiently awaits next Plinket review'

Ancient Otter

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1888 on: 20 December, 2015, 10:09:44 PM »
I think you can detect a great deal of frantic cutting in this movie quite late on, presumably to speed things along or to tighten focus - the toy aisles are full of stuff that doesn't really appear, for example.

Apparently there was a plot leak on a jigsaw that appeared on amazon.jp a few months before the film's release and as far as I can tell, the plot leak has not appeared in TFA and may come up in Episodes 8 or 9?

JOE SOAP

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 and Disney buy Lucas Film
« Reply #1889 on: 20 December, 2015, 11:20:08 PM »
A few significant bits of info in terms of script devlopment between Arndt, Arbams & Kasdan - Abrams worked with Arndt for several months but they found that finishing a script was becoming problematic. Kasdan was brough in to help the process.

Michael Arndt was having difficulty finishing a script within the necessary time frame. “There was a ton of ideas and outlines, a lot of cards on the wall, a lot of writing on whiteboards,” Abrams said, but no screenplay. With pre-production chores already well under way in London, where much of the film would be shot at Pinewood Studios, Abrams and Kasdan took over the screenwriting process, starting more or less from scratch. “We said, Blank page. Page one. What do we desperately want to see?” Abrams told me. Though Abrams said both men had pet ideas from the development process they wanted to incorporate, and did, Kasdan made the process sound like more of a teardown: “We didn’t have anything,” Kasdan said. “There were a thousand people waiting for answers on things, and you couldn’t tell them anything except ‘Yeah, that guy’s in it.’ That was about it. That was really all we knew.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/05/star-wars-the-force-awakens-vanity-fair-cover


According to multiple insiders, the reason for the parting of ways was not due to a timeframe issue, as has been reported, but rather due to a difference of opinion of which characters to emphasize.

Arndt is said to have focused on the offspring of Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill), Han Solo (Harrison Ford) and Princess Leia (Carrie Fisher), with the original trilogy heroes taking on supporting roles. Abrams, however, wanted Episode VII to focus on the classic trio of characters, so audiences could have one more chance to enjoy them before a fitting send-off. The new characters, the offspring, will now be in supporting roles, according to these sources, and take center stage in Episode VIII and IX. Some characters have disappeared from the Arndt script and new ones are being drafted.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-rumors-who-is-669997



However far Abrams and Arndt had gotten it seems their initial story content was always heavily influenced by, and referential of, A New Hope and the Death Star. I think the central character story they ended up with - minus Luke in full-on Ben Kenobi role - is far better, but their decision seems to have led to increasing the role of a super-weapon.

The rehashing of the Death Star trope had some interesting variations that may or may not have been better than what ended up in the film.




***********Some spoilers in this article***********




At a post-screening Q&A for the movie on Saturday, Abrams and co-writers Lawrence Kasdan and Michael Arndt explained why they sidelined R2 – and why he finally had his own “awakening.”If an iconic starship gets a scene-stealing moment, then certainly R2-D2 deserved one, too. But the writers grappled with a way to make his re-emergence special.

“I had originally written R2 and C-3PO showing up together, and Larry very intelligently said, ‘You want to keep them separate from each other. And of course I’m like, ‘No, no, no, Larry. You don’t get it at all!’” Arndt joked, drawing laughs from the audience – as well as the screenwriter of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi sitting beside him.

Then Arndt says he got it: R2-D2’s arrival had to be presented as a kind of delayed gratification, building up the audience’s expectation before the droid rolls out and starts beep-blooping.

As the writers tried to find a logical place for that, they also grappled with the question of how to present Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker – who, as those who’ve seen The Force Awakens already know, was also held back as a climactic reveal in the final minutes of the movie.

“Early on I tried to write versions of the story where [Rey] is at home, her home is destroyed, and then she goes on the road and meets Luke. And then she goes and kicks the bad guy’s ass,” Arndt said. “It just never worked and I struggled with this. This was back in 2012.”

The trouble was a simple case of upstaging. “It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over,” Arndt said. “Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh f–k, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do.’”

The good news for Abrams was, he got to make a Star Wars movie. The bad news was, his toybox wouldn’t include a real-life Luke Skywalker action figure. Some of the early MacGuffins of the movie – the thing that drives a movie’s plot – were a search for Darth Vader’s remains, or a quest to the underwater wreckage of the second Death Star to recover a key piece of history about sacred Jedi sites in the galaxy.

Ultimately, the writers decided to make Luke himself the MacGuffin – the thing Rey, Han, Finn and Chewie are trying to find. And they figured that if a horrific past trauma forced Luke to retreat from the world, maybe the same could be said of R2. The droid’s physical form is still present, but his personality is not – lost in the miasma of grief over what transpired in the past.

When they find R2 beneath that dust cloth, the heroes already have a piece of a holographic map, but they lack the larger section of this uncharted region of space that will allow them to track down Luke. That’s where R2 became a useful storytelling device: he could be the missing framework.

The story group’s thinking went back to the 1977 original movie, when R2-D2 accessed the Empire’s mainframe as the heroes searched for the captured Princess Leia. “We had the idea about R2 plugging into the information base of the Death Star, and that’s how he was able to get the full map and find where the Jedi temples are,” Arndt said.

Abrams says he chose to spell this out indirectly in the movie because he didn’t want the story to get bogged down in “how s–t happened 30 years ago.”

“But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

“BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.”

The director acknowledges that R2’s sudden “awakening” at the end was designed to be an emotional storytelling utility: “While it may seem, you know, completely lucky and an easy way out, at that point in the movie, when you’ve lost a person, desperately, and somebody you hopefully care about is unconscious, you want someone to return.”

So for those let wondering: BB-8’s earlier question rattles around inside R2’s dome for a while. Those old astromechs must just take a while to boot up again.

Then as the movie draws to a close, our old friend finally comes back – and leads us to another one.



http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-answers-burning-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens
« Last Edit: 20 December, 2015, 11:23:10 PM by JOE SOAP »