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Author Topic: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)  (Read 20134 times)

Ghost MacRoth

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #45 on: 03 June, 2013, 10:39:33 PM »

Come to think of it, is that what our universe is?  Jesus, Morrison, you've quite the imagination, for a bald Scotch magic knight.

You believe him to be derived from whiskey? 

Or have you just gotten confused between the SCOTS a nation of people, and SCOTCH an alcoholic beverage? 
I don't have a drinking problem.  I drink, I get drunk, I fall over.  No problem!

Matt Timson

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #46 on: 03 June, 2013, 10:56:54 PM »

Hmmm... Except for the fact that it's obviously not a POV shot from St. John's own eyes. Sorry.

I must admit, I've never once even entertained the idea that it might be St. John who's narrating at the end and having just read it again (because you never know), I still don't.

I always assumed that Peyne became a part of Chimera (he mentions being part of something else), rather than just fading away to nothing- but it could just as easily be Peyne's 'spirit' (or whatever it is that Grant thinks happens to the mind after death of the body) narrating the story.

Why is it obviously not a POV shot?


Because it's not.

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Matt Timson

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #47 on: 03 June, 2013, 10:57:55 PM »
That last pic is a POV shot. Technically, the middle one is as well- but nobody would hold anything like that.
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Matt Timson

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #48 on: 03 June, 2013, 11:01:54 PM »
Anyway- that aside, it just doesn't read as being St. John to me and never will. To be honest, it makes even less sense to me than the Sunset Boulevard idea.

Sorry.
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Link Prime

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #49 on: 03 June, 2013, 11:05:52 PM »
I need a double Scots.

Ghost MacRoth

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #50 on: 03 June, 2013, 11:08:38 PM »
With Icelandics?

;)
I don't have a drinking problem.  I drink, I get drunk, I fall over.  No problem!

Link Prime

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #51 on: 03 June, 2013, 11:24:28 PM »
And maybe a dash of Canadian Dry!

Trout

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #52 on: 03 June, 2013, 11:47:09 PM »
Yeah, that's not St John's POV. I always read that "voiceover" as being Chimera speaking. I need to re-read the story, though.

Buttonman

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #53 on: 04 June, 2013, 12:15:44 AM »
Given that Chimera is evidentially present when that German Lady summons the LLogior to inhabit the Maxi-man twin couldn't they all have been sucked up then, with all the events we witness happening in the bottle world? I don't think there is enough evidence for a definitive answer and that's really the joy of things.

Something else I wondered is whether our alternative ever seen? Obviously we don't have superheroes so Alternitive 220 where Zenith lives can't be us - are we ever given a nod? Only thought of this after my re-read so I wasn't looking for clues.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #54 on: 04 June, 2013, 01:13:00 AM »

Come to think of it, is that what our universe is?  Jesus, Morrison, you've quite the imagination, for a bald Scotch magic knight.

You believe him to be derived from whiskey? 

Or have you just gotten confused between the SCOTS a nation of people, and SCOTCH an alcoholic beverage?

Neither.  I was just winding you up.  Just like Zenith's Scotch agent Eddie was wound up by the same word in Phase 2.
Anyway, I prefer Ireland whiskey.
« Last Edit: 04 June, 2013, 01:19:16 AM by JayzusB.Christ »
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

Jimmy Baker's Assistant

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #55 on: 04 June, 2013, 07:03:21 AM »

Because it's not.

Ah well. Peyne/Chimera it is then.

credo

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #56 on: 04 June, 2013, 03:52:23 PM »
My take on it has always been that the events in the previous 3 Phases are dependent upon the resolution of Phase 4. So, here goes ...

1. The Lloiger exist outside of space-time, but are trapped in a manner that means they can't interact with the physical realm using their super-magic world-warping power of turning people into fist-heads.
2. That trap is Chimera, so they spend the entirety of their existence (forever, or at least all time at the same time), trying to break out of that trap.
3. Their main method of doing that is by interacting with, and encouraging the development of, superhuman bodies, which can act as hosts for their powers (Pre-Phase 1, Phase 1 and Phase 3).
4. The pyramid in Phase 1 isn't Chimera, but looks like her for some kind of mystical resonance reason that allows the Lloiger to interact with the dormant superhuman body.
5. The alignment of the omnihedron in Phase 3 is the means that will break the Lloiger free of Chimera.
6. The superhumans became the Lloiger in Phase 4 when they were already trapped.

.. and, depending on your notion of pre-determinacy, the big issue.

7. The actions that led to the birth of the Lloiger were all determined by their trapped status, thus ensuring an inescapable chain of events from birth to realisation of trap to failed attempts to break free to birth ... but in some weird parallel multiverse (a parallel of parallels) one of these Lloiger attempts may just work, so perhaps that's what they're looking for.

Oh and I'd definitely say it's Peyne's narration as some kind of restored spiritual part of Chimera (she's the ultimate power remember, not the Lloiger, so his existence is dependent on her, not them).

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #57 on: 04 June, 2013, 04:53:23 PM »
With you all the way there, credo.  Though I've only realised it in the last month. Nice work, Zenith Phase 4:  Blowing my mind twice in with a 22-year gap in between
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

Matt Timson

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #58 on: 04 June, 2013, 05:11:29 PM »

Because it's not.

Ah well. Peyne/Chimera it is then.

This is the internet- you're doing it wrong. Can I suggest multiple POV photos of yourself handling objects in a clearly painful way, while claiming that this is how you always hold stuff?

;)
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Matt Timson

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Re: Zenith - a few questions (with spoilers)
« Reply #59 on: 04 June, 2013, 05:18:01 PM »

4. The pyramid in Phase 1 isn't Chimera, but looks like her for some kind of mystical resonance reason that allows the Lloiger to interact with the dormant superhuman body.


That was my take too- or just a bit of window dressing (like there not being a need for a sacrifice, but making one of Doctor Driesch anyway). Take your pick.
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