The Black Dog Thread

[Dandontdare]

I had a big bout of depression in the early 00s - my GP referred me to a counsellor, who was a lovely lady but I didn't feel comfortable opening up to a stranger so I only went twice. I took St John's Wort and in time got better - I have no idea how much of that was down to the SJW, but I did some research at the time and found that in clinical trials it was found to make a difference for mild to moderate depression - you can get pills or a liquid solution with an eyedropper from any healthfood shop.

[Something Fishy]

I've battled the same for years now Tordels and had a bad slump last year.  I've also been keen to avoid meds and went down the St Johns Wort route and, though mild, I can honestly say they made a big difference for me.

If anything, within a few months I found my head getting a bit manic and had to come off them only to find the depression had really eased back again.

Certainly worth a try.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Good stuff, JBC, that's exactly the kind of info I'm after. It's hard to believe I'm so fecking ignorant when I've been dealing with this for more than 20 years, and too regularly in the past 10. 

I've only twice visited a GP about it, once in my very early 20s when I was prescribed a 'tonic' containing amphetamines, that I liked entirely too much and actually led me on to taking speed (but that's another story), and again in my late-30s when I was simply advised to knuckle down and 'not let it define your life'. Which I've been trying to do ever since, although quite frankly that's exactly what it has done. When you find yourself binning your phone and sleeping in your car to avoid your own family and friends, as I did a year or so back,  I think that definitions are moot. 

So time for a change.

Sound; I really, really hope it works out for you.  I think the medication is generally supposed to be used in conjunction with some kind of CBT course; I haven't done enough of the latter, to be honest, but i have had quite a bit of counselling and it does help.

My GP also told me that my depression doesn't need to define me.  It's a strange one, that:  Does anything really define anyone?  I think I can speak for most of the board here, TB, when I say that you are seen around here as an extremely wise, witty and well-informed contributor - sort of our online Yoda, albeit with a better sense of humour. 

Personally - and without any disrespect to any other boarder; I stay here less because of the shared reading preferences and more because of the large number of fun, interesting and smart people - I genuinely, honestly value your input on this board more than anyone else's.  I've long lost count of the number of times you've opened my mind to new and better ways of thinking about a subject, or somehow plucked the half-formed thoughts from my mind and expressed them in a more articulate and creative way than I ever could.  It's hard for me to equate this intelligent, well-grounded and often hilarious Tordelback with the bleak, self-loathing and lost Tordelback of your own descriptions.

But then, that's the nature of the beast, isn't it?  Most people, I believe, see me as a friendly and upbeat person, and I very often am.  But these people haven't seen me during the bad times, when I've hidden from them on the street because social pleasantries seem empty and stressful, and when I've gone to bed terrified at the prospect of soon having to wake up to another day of misery; wishing I didn't have to wake up at all.

Self-definition doesn't come into it: We're one way sometimes, and another way other times.  Depression by its nature feels inescapable and permanent in a way that my words can't come close to describing, but you won't always be the way you are now.  Believe me when I say, I'm rooting for you.

[Professor Bear]

If St John's Wort didn't work, big pharma wouldn't have had the government ban homeopaths from selling it.

Don't be afraid to shop around when it comes to brain medicines - especially if you're private and paying through the nose - as I've heard depression sufferers compare notes on meds and the short version of the story is that some meds work for some people yet do sod all for others.  I've heard of forums on the web where people swap medicines (or give them away before they expire), so it might be worth checking out and seeing if there's any mention of experiences others have had on the industry standard meds wherever you live.

And of course: take care of yourself.

[TordelBack]

Feckin' artists, right bunch of poofs.  And you're still not getting to paint me like one of your French girls.


Cheers, lads.

[Prodigal2]

Good stuff, JBC, that's exactly the kind of info I'm after. It's hard to believe I'm so fecking ignorant when I've been dealing with this for more than 20 years, and too regularly in the past 10. 

I've only twice visited a GP about it, once in my very early 20s when I was prescribed a 'tonic' containing amphetamines, that I liked entirely too much and actually led me on to taking speed (but that's another story), and again in my late-30s when I was simply advised to knuckle down and 'not let it define your life'. Which I've been trying to do ever since, although quite frankly that's exactly what it has done. When you find yourself binning your phone and sleeping in your car to avoid your own family and friends, as I did a year or so back,  I think that definitions are moot. 

So time for a change.

Sound; I really, really hope it works out for you.  I think the medication is generally supposed to be used in conjunction with some kind of CBT course; I haven't done enough of the latter, to be honest, but i have had quite a bit of counselling and it does help.

My GP also told me that my depression doesn't need to define me.  It's a strange one, that:  Does anything really define anyone?  I think I can speak for most of the board here, TB, when I say that you are seen around here as an extremely wise, witty and well-informed contributor - sort of our online Yoda, albeit with a better sense of humour. 

Personally - and without any disrespect to any other boarder; I stay here less because of the shared reading preferences and more because of the large number of fun, interesting and smart people - I genuinely, honestly value your input on this board more than anyone else's.  I've long lost count of the number of times you've opened my mind to new and better ways of thinking about a subject, or somehow plucked the half-formed thoughts from my mind and expressed them in a more articulate and creative way than I ever could.  It's hard for me to equate this intelligent, well-grounded and often hilarious Tordelback with the bleak, self-loathing and lost Tordelback of your own descriptions.

But then, that's the nature of the beast, isn't it?  Most people, I believe, see me as a friendly and upbeat person, and I very often am.  But these people haven't seen me during the bad times, when I've hidden from them on the street because social pleasantries seem empty and stressful, and when I've gone to bed terrified at the prospect of soon having to wake up to another day of misery; wishing I didn't have to wake up at all.

Self-definition doesn't come into it: We're one way sometimes, and another way other times.  Depression by its nature feels inescapable and permanent in a way that my words can't come close to describing, but you won't always be the way you are now.  Believe me when I say, I'm rooting for you.

This.

TB during my time on this forum you have impressed the hell out of this septic with doubt God botherer. I too am truly rooting for you fella and saddened to hear of black dog's assaults (BTW I have tried a variety of anti-depressants and can fill you in on my experiences on request).

JB when I joined this forum your welcome and warmth was one of the most conspicuous aspects of my joining and I echo your sentiments about the other good people of the forum.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Thanks, Prodigal; and as I've said before, I wish all religious types were as sound as you.

By the way I'm glad this thread finally got going - I felt a wee bit bad for Grugz when he started it with very good intentions, but nobody replied for a long time.  The thing was, there was another thread at the time that had discussed depression at length.

EDIT:  I'll paint you whether you like it or not, TB.  All over with gold paint, like Jill Masterson in Goldfinger.

[JPMaybe]

Reading your post TB, my advice would be get to your GP post-fucking-haste and get on the pills.  You'll almost certainly be offered an SSRI, which worked very well for me.  That feeling you describe is still there for me, but (most of the time) much more distant, muted, less intense.  Side-effects wise, all I really had was  some anorgasmia, which wasn't a huge deal- to put it crudely, it meant I could last for ages with my gf of the time.

Therapy wise you'll almost certainly (eventually) get a course of 8-odd CBT sessions.  CBT works very well for some people- personally not so much, annoyingly, but I'd at least give it a go.

[Something Fishy]

Cbt helped me quite a lot.  The depression still returns and St. John's has been a real blessing, but knowing my triggers thanks to that counselling is a huge help.

[Tjm86]

Hi Tordels', sorry to hear about your current situation.  I know how you feel on the medication front.  For a long time I felt pretty much the same.  I think part of that was because of my mothers' experience. 

There are some insanely sound people here and reading there remarks and advice I think they definitely merit serious consideration.  Having been through a CBT course I personally recommend it.  That said, I think it does depend on the counsellor.  I paid for one privately who was great but have also been to two different ones through work who were, not to put too fine a point on it, fecking useless!  As Something Fishy says, knowing triggers is also helpful in finding an effective balance.

The other strategy I have tried is Mindfulness.  I think the worst thing about the Black Dog for me is the spiral.  Feeling depressed or anxious and then getting annoyed about feeling depressed and anxious which makes the depression or anxiety even worse!  Using mindfulness strategies to shift the focus helps me to manage that more effectively.

As with everyone else, I really hope (and as another irritating God botherer, pray) that you find the most effective way for you.  Look after yourself fella.

[Old Tankie]

Counselling helped me when my illness started kicking in big time, maybe worth giving it a go.

[Leigh S]

Hi Tordels', sorry to hear about your current situation.  I know how you feel on the medication front.  For a long time I felt pretty much the same.  I think part of that was because of my mothers' experience. 

This was my experience - my mother was on valium and in and out of institutes during my childhood, and my older brother followed suit in his mid to late teens. 

My reaction to my own feelings of depression was always to never even acknowledge them - seeking help had not seemed to help the rest of my family, so I determined to get on with it - keep my head down, stay out of situations that would heighten feelings of cripplingly low self worth, avoid drink or anything that might make me lose control.  As I was left holding the fort when my mom then dad buggered off then giving in to it didnt seem an option at all. 

The first half of the 90s pretty much passed me by.  I remember people at work would joke about how I never left my bedroom, and I kind of built a character around it that and joked along with them. 

I met my wife at work and even when we started going out, I wouldnt drink and didnt really enjoy socialising - partly I would be worrying about what wwas happening at home, and partially was I didn't really have anything in common with the people I knew at the time (don't like sports, leering & wasnt drinking) - I've asked her why she put up with me, but she said I was funny and thoughtful and all the horrible stuff (both the practical goings on fending off bailiffs or breakdowns at home and the inside feelings of worthlessness) I kept away from her and friends. 

It has only been recently, many years after extricating myself from a lot of the worries I had, setting up home, having a family of my own and finding a bunch of friends that I am happy to want to socialise with (the geeks have united!), that I have understood just how ill I was back then. Ironically, having this realisation only in the past few years seemed to bring the depression back to the point it nearly knocked me out properly.

I can't give any advice - I was made to go the the GP, but didnt follow up on chasing my own therapy (strange that!). Medication still feels like something that I have seen people use to deaden their disquiet, when maybe their disquiet should have been acted on.  The one thing I did wrong was not to let it get too much for me, and I'm not sure I havent seen people get a prescription rather than (for example) ditch the partner they knew they didn't love or carry on hiding from the world. That said, I wouldn't deter anyone else - I have a friend was always very resistant to the idea of taking drugs, until his anxiety went through the roof and now he is a proudish user.

Anyway, as others have said, it is very sobering to see boarders here who are so articulate, funny and engaging posting here - I'm taking that as a sign you can't have one without the other! 

[Grugz]

its nice to see people using this thread as I was afraid it was getting filed in the "nice idea but no thanks "drawer.

   I haven't tried the st johns wort or even heard about it so may have to give it a go. For me anti depressants have been a life saver ,used to be on fluoxetine but now am on sertraline which seems to keep me ticking along without any side effects (unless you count the fact that it seems to surpress dreams,or at least my ability to know about it) was on mirtazapine briefly but that stuff had a weird effect on my legs! very uncomfortable restlessness/ache/cramp .
   Also one of the main things causing my problems is coming to an end,work has agreed to look at the dismissal for ill health option which is a damn good idea according to my gp who has agreed to do a report. i'll get 3 months at full pay plus holidays as my notice which is better than the zero I'm on at the moment...then when I get better I can look for something less complicated and political maybe join a care agency and work more locally and actually care for people instead of the move to admin monkey I was getting. 20 years down the pan but I did make a very good and long lasting friendship out of it.

  tordels, whatever you decide consider giving the tabs a try at least, I didn't like taking them but they do help...counselling also helped but it ony really works if you get someone you can talk to one I had was a lovely lady called Ingrid but I did have one who was a bit of a patronising hippy who for some reason reminded me of the woman from poltergeist (the little one "this house is clean")
  they did try to make me do a cbt computer therapy course I lasted two sessions before I taught my dog  some swear words and nearly threw the laptop out of the window...it was very ...acted.like one of those naff course videos you may have been forced to watch.
stay strong folks....

[richerthanyou]

It's Sunday. I hate Sundays. The most depressing day of the week. Even worse is I have things to do and I have no motivation to do them. Even though I know they are important. It's annoying knowing that the majority of boarders are asleep right now (or down the pub) so the chance of a reply any time soon in minimal. The thing is I'm not even doing anything. My motivation is so low that I can't even be bothered getting up and putting on a movie or reading a book. Or playing guitar. I could quite easily just lay here and wait to fall asleep. The only reason I'm on here now is because the computer is right next to my bed so I can lay on my bed and type.

Does anyone else here suffer worse on a Sunday? Perhaps I should get a weekend job to keep me busy and take my mind off being bored/depressed.

There are so many things I could be doing and a few more that I must be doing today, and yet my body just says eh.

Anyway enough moaning from me. I know that if I give it long enough it will pass. It's not like I'm going to top myself. I wouldn't have the motivation even if I wanted to.

[JayzusB.Christ]

I'm so sorry, but I couldn't help thinking of this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RTJ4vHoYUs


Maybe some kind of activity rather than a job; hillwalking or somesuch?  Walking the hills with friends helped me a bit during my bad spells.  Have to say; I love Sundays these days - Right now they're my only day off; and I really enjoy the freedom to do what I want and go where I want.