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Author Topic: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)  (Read 19167 times)

I, Cosh

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #450 on: 17 January, 2017, 10:40:22 am »
I'd always hoped that Palps was in some way behind the Sandpeople's inexplicable treatment of Shmi.  I mean, what was all that about? The problem with seeing Ani actually falling to the Dark Side at that point is that everything we see afterwards in the two Clone Wars series must depict a man already lost, rather than a boy still struggling with his demons. I like and understand cartoon Anakin in a way I could never grok live-action Anakin.
Heh. It's a while since I've expended any mental energy on this but I remember thinking at the time that this had to be the pivotal part of the PT. It comes at pretty much the halfway point of the film and the trilogy. In terms of reflecting the OT, it's at almost exactly the same point as Luke faces the Vader-image on Dagobah. A faiure which he ultimately recovers from.

It baffled me at the time why they comprehensively rowed back from that until the Jedi temple massacre. On the other hand, I've never watched Clone Wars or Rebels or any of that stuff.
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I, Cosh

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #451 on: 17 January, 2017, 10:46:11 am »
...I was struck afresh by the fear that this Mature Readers! take on SW is all that the 'fans' will accept from now on. Which, fun as Rogue One is, would be awful.
Totally agree. I like the idea of a vast galaxy capable of embracing different tones but really it should be accessible to kids.

Although every time someone brings this up, I can't help thinking of the charred skeletons of Owen and Beru.
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Professor Bear

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #452 on: 17 January, 2017, 10:47:26 am »
Anakin knew what he'd done to the Raiders was wrong - and struggled with it - because he'd acted in anger, but when he put Mace thru that windu he made a conscious choice.  He never "gave in" to the Dark Side, he chose it as a path to follow after Mace tried to assassinate Palpatine offering the exact same rationale - "he's too dangerous to be allowed to live" - that Palpatine offered for killing Dooku.  At this point, Anakin had betrayed Palpatine and chosen the Jedi, but they - Mace and Yoda - let him down, and he chose thethe one path that he thought might let him save Padme.
Although if you want to view it in absolute terms, he probably became evil when his eyes started glowing red and yellow.

Hawkmumbler

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #453 on: 17 January, 2017, 10:48:26 am »
...I was struck afresh by the fear that this Mature Readers! take on SW is all that the 'fans' will accept from now on. Which, fun as Rogue One is, would be awful.
Totally agree. I like the idea of a vast galaxy capable of embracing different tones but really it should be accessible to kids.

Although every time someone brings this up, I can't help thinking of the charred skeletons of Owen and Beru.
This is kinda why I dig The Clone Wars and Rebels so much. Both series really embrace the notion of an vast galaxy of mixed cultures and races.

sheldipez

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #454 on: 17 January, 2017, 10:48:53 am »
I'd always hoped that Palps was in some way behind the Sandpeople's inexplicable treatment of Shmi.  I mean, what was all that about? The problem with seeing Ani actually falling to the Dark Side at that point is that everything we see afterwards in the two Clone Wars series must depict a man already lost, rather than a boy still struggling with his demons. I like and understand cartoon Anakin in a way I could never grok live-action Anakin.

It's amusing that the Anakin in Clone Wars is a more fleshed out, 3 dimensional character compared to the version you see in the films; those series does a lot of heavy lifting for the prequel timeline one expected of an animated cartoon delivered in 20 minute chunks.

As far as Tarkin's inclusion, or indeed exclusion, from Rogue One could be concerned, there where only really three options.

1) Leave him out completely. This would no doubt annoy fans, including myself, if for no other reason other than he's fairly integral to A New Hope. And this being the immediate precursor to ANH he's kind of required.

2) Bring back Wayne Pygram to reprise his role cameo from Episode III. The only problem with this is though he might look the part...from a three quarter length shot...for a few seconds...I'm not convinced he could have pulled off the kinda of scenes Tarkin had in RO.

3) The CGI, which IMHO was the best course of action. This kind thing is of course a slippery slope, but as I said before I was chuffed with the execution and so long as it doesn't become a regular occurrence i'm happy with this irregular method used for such an irregular movie.

I didn't have a problem with Tarkin, I think Star Wars series should always try and push the expectations from SFX (as much as I am not a massive prequel fan, I do give Lucas massive amount of praise for attempting to push the technology with near all digital set pieces, all digital clone troopers and the push to filming digitally) so I think they did the right thing. If I was in charge of Rogue One though I don't think I'd be as brave and would of tried to hide the pitfalls of the Tarkin CGI model within a hologram projection in conversations with Krennic, that way you could hide a lot. I do wonder if they considered that or always intended to do nothing but the full version.

I, Cosh

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #455 on: 17 January, 2017, 10:50:22 am »
Although if you want to view it in absolute terms, he probably became evil when his eyes started glowing red and yellow.
At last, the voice of reason!

Almost feel like rewatching the prequels to see if any of this stuff is actually in there or if you're all just cribbing it from your (no longer canon) comic books.
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Krakajac

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #456 on: 17 January, 2017, 10:57:58 am »
"Surely he gives in to his anger (like what Yoda predicted) in AotC and it's all inevitable from there."

True.  But your question was 'when does he actually give in'.  I'd still say when he assisted killing Mace.  Sure, prior to that he was well on his way - and yes, he had a mean streak.  But if he had already 'given in' - he wouldn't have bothered telling Mace that Palpatine was dangerous, etc.

I might be wrong - but I think his eyes changed colour just after killing Mace - a sign that he had definitely turned and 'couldn't go back' (at least for 20 years or so!)
« Last Edit: 17 January, 2017, 11:01:12 am by Krakajac »

Professor Bear

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #457 on: 17 January, 2017, 11:32:28 am »
Clone Wars is canon now thanks to Rogue One, so the heavy lifting done there applies to the PT.  AotC through Clone Wars, Anakin is torn and it's only in Sith that he actually turns.
It was never "inevitable" though - if the Jedi hadn't betrayed the Republic, Anakin would have stayed loyal.

sheldipez

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #458 on: 17 January, 2017, 11:40:13 am »
Clone Wars is canon now thanks to Rogue One, so the heavy lifting done there applies to the PT.

It was always canon though because George was heavily involved throughout (and how better the end result when he takes an mentor role rather than driving the thing himself).

AotC through Clone Wars, Anakin is torn and it's only in Sith that he actually turns.
It was never "inevitable" though - if the Jedi hadn't betrayed the Republic, Anakin would have stayed loyal.

Loyal for how long though, until something else happened to trigger something else? From the beginning he showed problems against authority figures which is why they thrust Ashoka upon him to help show here what he should be like (even though it turned out to be do as I say, not as I do). If he had stopped with the Jedi the truth about his children could have jeopardised him staying with the order had they found out.

Professor Bear

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #459 on: 17 January, 2017, 01:11:45 pm »
Up until he turns, Anakin could always be saved and it's the Jedi who fail him, not the other way around - Anakin has resolved himself to the Jedi's judgment the moment he reveals the Sith Lord's identity to Windu, and only Windu's betrayal could turn him around.
Add to that that the Jedi know that Anakin is the father of Padme's children - go back and watch Anakin's consultation with Yoda, or failing that just watch Obi-Wan state outright that Anakin is the father of her children to Padme's face when Obi-Wan begins to believe that all hope for Anakin is gone.

Also, how is the Jedi finding out about his kids and his marriage much of a worry to Anakin?  If Windu hadn't screwed the pooch the galaxy is saved for another thousand years, Anakin has to leave the Jedi order and so has no more prophecy being held over him alongside arbitrary and unreachable standards for which the goalposts are constantly moved further away from him by the distant and dogmatic Jedi Council, he gets to be with his wife and kids and live out the life denied he and his mother, presumably wandering the galaxy just like he said he would all the way back in Episode 1 when he laid out their shared destiny to Padme.  Anakin being chucked out of the Jedi is the best thing that could happen to him, not the worst.

Quote
It was always canon though because George was heavily involved throughout (and how better the end result when he takes an mentor role rather than driving the thing himself).

Spin-offs were always up in the air, canon-wise, as evidenced by Disney purging the EU once they took control.
I'd say George's contribution to Clone Wars was swings and roundabouts: he took a firmer hand in the creative side and then gave us three episodes about banking and income taxes, for instance, though we also got stuff like entire acts of an episode being single-shot takes, as well as Asoka being written-out in a non-fatal manner (which I think Tordels called beat-for-beat several years before it happened).

Eric Plumrose

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #460 on: 23 January, 2017, 12:58:52 am »
Saw it Saturday gone. Surprised by how much I enjoyed it, despite not having a Scooby what was going on half the time. Hindsight's not doing it many favours, though. Don't hate it, unlike THE FORCE AWANKENS which seriously annoyed me pissed-me-the-arsing-fuck-OFF-while-actually-WATCHING-the-bastard-thing. That, despite my quite liking the first half-hour or so of him, Finn, and her.

Loved the opening scene between Le Chiffre and John Daggett, even if I did wrongly assume the former was a former Jedi on hearing he has "talents" (or whatever's said. Yes, the DOCTOR STRANGE movie may well be a mitigating factor, here).

Stuff then happens. Doesn't help that Cineworld has the picture contrast at its lowest setting and too often I'm finding myself wondering when best to nip out and collar a member of staff, fat lot of good it did me during ARRIVAL.

Marvin, the paranoid android K, the cheer-not bot seems written/edited to steal the show in a rather obvious Christina Ricci/Wednesday ADDAMS FAMILY VALUES kind of way. Surprisingly, it works. Almost.

Hang on, that's Riz Ahmed! Playing a freedom fighter and not (for once) a terrorist. The Last King of Scotland says something about his Brian-sucking squid leaving people permanently Brian-sucked but Riz is left simply addled and recovers later when sprung from his cell.

Zatoichi the Whiller, he's cool. Oh, by GEORGE, yeah, he's cool!

. . . Except when he's babbling on about him and the Force and the Force and him. Yeah, that's kinda annoying. He also has a sack placed over his head. Funny!

-- except, of course, the joke's then explained for the hard-of-thinking.

More stuff happens. People keep saying this is a heist movie but there doesn't seem to be any plan as such.

The ghost of Peter Cushing plots and exposits. Far from taking me out of the movie (which I was about to do myself in the hope someone could sort out the contrast) the CGI Tarkin keeps me watching. But like Forest Whitaker in THE CRYING GAME it's the voice that doesn't work, despite the correct inflection.

I am actually enjoying this!

Because, even though it's quite obviously a STAR WARS film, it's actually making some effort to be its own thing.

That is until the Rebels attack the Death Star Gerald Scarfe, or whatever that planet's called. That's where I kinda lose interest. People whose names I can't remember die. Surprisingly, this saddens me. Except for Hannibal's daughter and that bloke from AND YOUR MOTHER, TOO. That's not surprising 'cuz I'm a sucker for doomed lovers resigning themselves to Fate (see also SKYLINE).

Darth Vader. He's in it, too. Kicks some arse, though in no meaningful way. Maybe instead it shoulda been Rogue One he leaves smeared in that corridor, their buying time while the Jones woman transmits those plans to . . .

Princess Leia. I don't give a flying fuck about the supposed naffness of the CGI. I cried.
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Tjm86

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #461 on: 23 January, 2017, 05:51:28 pm »
You know, reading this review I'm almost tempted to go see the film again.  I think it's going to make for a fare more interesting viewing experience.

sheridan

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #462 on: 23 January, 2017, 07:56:05 pm »
Hang on, that's Riz Ahmed! Playing a freedom fighter and not (for once) a terrorist. The Last King of Scotland says something about his Brian-sucking squid leaving people permanently Brian-sucked but Riz is left simply addled and recovers later when sprung from his cell.


Which one was Brian?

Theblazeuk

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #463 on: 29 January, 2017, 11:12:05 pm »
I thought it was great and seeing Carrie was the first time Star Wars has made me shed a tear. My wife was in tears at every major death though which led to a very tear streaked face by the end. Personally I don't want nothing but 'dark' Star Wars either but I don't think this was crass or cheap in its execution, which is the hallmark of the 'moody teenage boys' tone in my book. And it reminded me in a lot of ways of the book series of Rogue and Wraith squadron, but with an even higher body count.

Honestly though I think it's important and good to have such a well made, escapist universe where the heroes die along with the red shirts, and the only thing that escapes is hope for the future. It'll only be a problem if we can't have the fun movies as well but I don't think there's any fear of that. Be at least as much of a barrel of laughs as Empire Strikes Back... and this was too barring some murders and deaths ;)
« Last Edit: 29 January, 2017, 11:15:15 pm by Theblazeuk »

Hawkmumbler

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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
« Reply #464 on: 19 March, 2017, 03:45:17 pm »
You know, whatever grievances you might have about the entirety of the movie, but I think the fact it's been three months and the corridor scene STILL gives me the chills like I just walked out of the cinema from seeing it is credit to how well done Vader was in this movie.

Like, holy shit guys.