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Author Topic: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread  (Read 91086 times)

AlexF

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #330 on: 31 October, 2017, 12:57:34 pm »
I find that Grant's solo Dredd work of this period really sticks out as being unlike the partnership work - he seems to be a lot more cynical with his citizens, and is way more keen on painting the Judge system as more overtly evil. Sometimes this produces the staggeringly haunting 'John Cassavetes is Dead', and other times it ends up with the heavy-handed 'Politics', which kind of interrupts the flow of the 'Dredd softens his position on Democracy' thing that had been and continues to build around the time.

Basically, Grant's Dredd stuff just isn't as good as Wagner's, but his solo Stront and Anderson stuff is largely excellent. In my opinion.

AlexF

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #331 on: 31 October, 2017, 01:01:11 pm »
Meanwhile, a controversial opinion on Tyranny Rex:
Steve Dillon's art, excellent as it is, doesn't fit the tone of Smith's writing. Dillon's storytelling is so clear that it gets in the way of the fact that the plots, even the early ones, don't really make that much sense. Simpson's Soft Bodies work may have made that strip even less comprehensible, but it makes the overall mood that much more weird and disturbing.

But Dillon's design of the character is proper awesome - and presumably explains why she's appeared on more cover montages than she's had actual episodes of strip.*


*I haven't counted this.

Magnetica

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #332 on: 31 October, 2017, 02:14:02 pm »
Basically, Grant's Dredd stuff just isn't as good as Wagner's, but his solo Stront and Anderson stuff is largely excellent. In my opinion.

Yes that’s probably true. But then again there probably isn’t anyone whose Dredd is as good as Wagner’s. 

For me, Grant basically is the Anderson writer.

And Grant’s Strontium Dog was perfectly good until he decided to kill him off.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #333 on: 31 October, 2017, 07:40:48 pm »
Yeah I find it really interesting the way Grant's Dredd has rarely lived up to his work on some other characters, Anderson in particular but wider afield his Batman was astonishing. He did some great stories solo Dredd but not with the cosistancy of his work on some others.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #334 on: 02 November, 2017, 10:19:51 pm »
Yah know I really don't hate The Hit(s) Rogue stories. I mean okay these things are all relative and I really don't get on with Rogue Trooper but I'm enjoying it much more (as I always do) than the Nu Earth stuff. Its far from classic and it can't just be the great Steve Dillon art as Rogue has always been served by great art.

Why I enjoy it more than the stuff before... it feels more coherant. I think the Angel of Death thing is a good way for a character as dull as Rogue to go. He always was a bit souless. Hey it makes so much more sense than the wonderful world building hampered by hacked scripting of the previous stuff...

... well okay until he just walks into the super blindly gun mega weapon that bit was right out of the GFD school of writing!

AlexF

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #335 on: 03 November, 2017, 03:23:09 pm »
The Hit series really ought to have worked, but somehow it just didn't. Rogue as an assassin trying to kill all the individuals keeping the war going is great motivation. Mixing up the settings with each Hit was a lot of fun. Steve Dillon is 100% amazing on the series, and some of Geller's plotting and banter was solid comics.

But I never cared in the way I did on the Nu Earth stuff.

Theory 1: Nu Earth as a setting allowed the strip to feel like so many WW1 and 2 war comics that had the bonus of showing the 'ordinary soldiers' point of view that gave readers an emotional connection to the best Rogue stories.

Theory 2: The Hit stories never showed us how/why the people on the Hit list were so key at keeping the war alive (or at least, ruining soldiers' lives), we readers (and Rogue himself) were just told to take it on face value, and this meant the ending of each story, when the target was killed, failed to resonate.

Cinnabar ended up so much better than any of the hits in part because it fixed those two problems.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #336 on: 03 November, 2017, 05:23:12 pm »

Theory 2: The Hit stories never showed us how/why the people on the Hit list were so key at keeping the war alive (or at least, ruining soldiers' lives), we readers (and Rogue himself) were just told to take it on face value, and this meant the ending of each story, when the target was killed, failed to resonate.


This is definitely true and the series biggest failing. The first Hit got closest to showing the target as significant with the iron grip over the people he ruled. Yet it still didn't really resonate with the wider confliict. By Hit 3 the super scientist had a big shiny light good from what we can tell... hmmm.

Still the NuEarth setting had been mined to death - effective though it was GFD filled it with simply wonderful ideas but failed execute them well (no pun intended... well maybe a little). His ideas and the concept of the Hit realised more clinically and we'd of had a ... well hit on our hands... rather than the near miss we get.

Tjm86

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #337 on: 03 November, 2017, 06:04:46 pm »
I think for me, the biggest issue was that it was quite a sudden jump.  We had a bit of an evolution with the re-gene story, introducing the idea of it being a galaxy wide conflict, but the idea that there was something behind it all ....  Felt very much like a conspiracy theory bolt on.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #338 on: 06 November, 2017, 10:06:11 pm »
Some quick thoughts as we reach the middle of 1988.

1. When do we get 5 thrills back. I do not remember the whole four thrills a Prog thing going on this long. I mean we get extra Dredd now and again but...

2. Mind I guess if we are going to have 4 thrills only Tharg is doing it for the the good of our health. The thrill in mid 1988 are pretty much exceptional.

3. I really like those early Tales of the Dog House stories. The two Colin MacNeil ones are immense fun.

4. I'm always surprised that Summer Magic is so short, only 7 episodes... wow!

5. Mind it packs so much in that short time, what a great thrill

6. I always felt that Bad Company II was good but not in the league of Bad Company...

7. I was wrong (again!)

8. I run hot and cold on Bisley on ABC Warriors

9. And Simon Harrison has all the challenging problems when he starts Strontium Dog...

10... the difference is I adore Simon Harrison on Strontium Dog with a consistancy Bisley can only dream of... funny ole thing art huh!

Greg M.

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #339 on: 08 November, 2017, 07:32:39 pm »
6. I always felt that Bad Company II was good but not in the league of Bad Company...

7. I was wrong (again!)

Popular opinion seems to agree with what you originally thought - that BCII is good, but BCI is the standout - but for years I've been arguing that BCII is at least as good as BCI, and in my opinion, superior. The art's even better - wilder, more exotic. The characters are more interesting - sorry Thrax, much as I love you, De Racine and Protoid have you beat - and their frequently grand guignol fates have even greater impact. It's cleverer, weirder, has a better plot (has a plot full stop), and wears its influences less obviously on its sleeve (or rather, it's influences are much less conventional for a war comic than BCI, which, wonderful though it is, is in obvious debt at times to 'Apocalypse Now'.) And the ending is up there with Song of the Surfer, Revere and Killing Time as the very best 2000AD's ever seen.

Magnetica

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #340 on: 08 November, 2017, 08:56:04 pm »
Having recently re-read Bad Company in the TPB, I would say series 1 is definitely my favourite and everything else is diminishing returns. (Bit like ABC Warriors then!).

I also seem to remember Rogue Trooper being immensely popular at the time, possibly 2nd only to Dredd. I never quite understood that, but I think liked it well enough, just not as much as Stront, Slaine, Nemesis etc.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #341 on: 08 November, 2017, 09:22:22 pm »
So the thing I never think I got on with with BC 2... and when I say get on with that needs to have the context of thinking it was bloody great, just not as bloody great as BC 1 ... was that the characters felt a little gimmacky, a little forced, in a way the original series character, however much they were just as odd, felt more naturally so. The Bad Company 2 felt like it was trying to out do Bad Company 1. I think in this reading I've seen past that (even if it might be true) and agree pretty much 100% with what Greg says. 

Either way both are absolutely fascinating reads.

Link Prime

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #342 on: 09 November, 2017, 09:29:32 am »
agree pretty much 100% with what Greg says. 

I'll join your Good Company.

The ending to BC II was a top 10 2000AD moment for me.

Dark Jimbo

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #343 on: 09 November, 2017, 09:33:00 am »
agree pretty much 100% with what Greg says. 

The ending to BC II was a top 10 2000AD moment for me.

And what should have been a perfect end to the series full-stop.

Link Prime

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #344 on: 10 November, 2017, 09:54:55 am »
agree pretty much 100% with what Greg says. 

The ending to BC II was a top 10 2000AD moment for me.

And what should have been a perfect end to the series full-stop.

The thoughts of any possible sequel to BC II would make Johnny Alpha turn in his grave.