Another 2000AD read thread

[Colin YNWA]

Helltrekkers is two issues in, and so far isn't showing much promise- it seems quite dated in a way that would have fit into the comic early on, perhaps as a sequel to the original run of Flesh following another group of survivors from Carver City - but this just shows how far things have come in 7 years.  It isn't being done any favours by being run with the hugely polished Nemesis book 4, either.  Mekquake seemed an odd but throwaway continuity injoke in the previous book, but now Ro-Jaws has appeared too.....very odd!  Ace is still fun, but feels a long way from where it started.  Will it ever be the same again?  Rogue Trooper seems to be winding down now into real filler mode, I think it got 3 pages in the last issue.  It's had a long run, but feels like now could finally be the time for it to take a break.

That's interesting, I'm still a couple of months away from getting to Helltrekkers but I've been looking forward to it. Not because I'm a particular fan but rather as I'm curious to see how my 'proper' Prog reading of things this time around (as opposed to reading stories in 'one go' as I've approached it in recent times has lead to a shift in the way I feel about some stories and I think Helltrekker was going to benefit.

That said, the idea that it feels out of place and slightly 'young' for the comic at that time does keep with my current impression.

[feathers]

Helltrekkers is two issues in, and so far isn't showing much promise- it seems quite dated in a way that would have fit into the comic early on, perhaps as a sequel to the original run of Flesh following another group of survivors from Carver City - but this just shows how far things have come in 7 years.  It isn't being done any favours by being run with the hugely polished Nemesis book 4, either.  Mekquake seemed an odd but throwaway continuity injoke in the previous book, but now Ro-Jaws has appeared too.....very odd!  Ace is still fun, but feels a long way from where it started.  Will it ever be the same again?  Rogue Trooper seems to be winding down now into real filler mode, I think it got 3 pages in the last issue.  It's had a long run, but feels like now could finally be the time for it to take a break.

That's interesting, I'm still a couple of months away from getting to Helltrekkers but I've been looking forward to it. Not because I'm a particular fan but rather as I'm curious to see how my 'proper' Prog reading of things this time around (as opposed to reading stories in 'one go' as I've approached it in recent times has lead to a shift in the way I feel about some stories and I think Helltrekker was going to benefit.

That said, the idea that it feels out of place and slightly 'young' for the comic at that time does keep with my current impression.

I look forward to seeing what you think when you get there!  In your 1982 review you mentioned the stability of strips meaning less fresh ideas - I think you're right, and this contributes to the rehash feel Helltrekkers has.  Just finished Prog 392 and Helltrekkers is still making a big deal out of people being eaten by dinosaurs... it's not even written by Mills!

One other note on this Prog- Rogue Trooper stumbles to the duffest of fizzling out conclusions as the Traitor General is killed by anonymous Souther air forces after Rogue changes his mind.  Turns out he was *just a traitor*, with no interesting motivation, or insight, to give on the quartz massacre, which apparently was just a thing that happened and doesn't need to be talked about.  Any other pleasure from this ending is taken away by Nerve Centre reassurances that there will be more Rogue coming soon...which, now, is not an enticing prospect.  What was it all for?

[sheridan]

One other note on this Prog- Rogue Trooper stumbles to the duffest of fizzling out conclusions as the Traitor General is killed by anonymous Souther air forces after Rogue changes his mind.  Turns out he was *just a traitor*, with no interesting motivation, or insight, to give on the quartz massacre, which apparently was just a thing that happened and doesn't need to be talked about.  Any other pleasure from this ending is taken away by Nerve Centre reassurances that there will be more Rogue coming soon...which, now, is not an enticing prospect.  What was it all for?

Glad the traitor finally got a motivation after all these years (only took thirty more since TG was killed).

[feathers]

Prog 401 - Nemesis the Warlock is a sequel to ABC Warriors and Nemesis is Deadlock?!  That's crazy!  I can't decide if this sort of makes sense if you think about it, or only makes sense if you don't think about it.  Still, I want to read what happens next.

[feathers]

Prog 427 - it's a while back now, but Helltrekkers really didn't disappoint in, um, delivering the disappointment.  It seemed like each week would feature a list of names of who had died or who hadn't that really WAS just a list of names - there was no realistic way to develop 100+ characters to the point of recognisability, let alone to where you care about them.  This meant that rather than an epic journey with huge cost to those undertaking it, the strip seemed to turn into a weekly book-keeping exercise, desperately trying to whittle it's cast down to something more managable. The scenarios encountered on route weren't anything special, and then the entire story is undercut by a comedy ending, as if finally admitting that the whole thing just hadn't worked at all.

Middenface McNulty enlivened the otherwise straightforward search for Xen the Brainwraith in Strontium Dog and Rogue Trooper's adventures on Horst are almost undistinguishable from the ones on Nu Earth.

However, Anderson's rematch with the Dark Judges was a lot of fun, and it's great to see her finally get her own series.  The artwork on this, and change of artists on Dredd and Slaine give 1985 a very different feel; even if Cam Kennedy's Dredd is a little inconsistently modeled.  Slaine is DENSE now, ideas almost too big to fit on the page, but somehow it works.

[feathers]

Prog 440 - I said last time that Slaine was dense, impressively it managed to keep it up and finish without getting bogged down or overstaying it's welcome, but maintaining that same feeling all the way through.  Rogue Trooper finishing on Horst was a relief, the whole thing from landing there onwards seemed very half-hearted, although the initial millicom bits were good.  I'm hoping when it returns there'll be more of that side, but at the same time I don't expect Gunnar, Helm and Bagman to be successfully re-gened for any amount of time, which might mean Rogue is stuck in a rut trying to find reasons not to escape from the things that make the character unique.

Nemesis is back, and more continuity is being thrown into the mix with the return of Satanus - though for me Flesh was the greatest of the opening set of stories so I'm always happy to have it's legacy continue!  Pulling Torquemada from the past into a time loop is interesting too, and deaths of various characters all round make for a fast-paced, quickly changing set up that's really appealing.  Talking of the opening line up, Mean Team is now 3 issues in and balancing between huge similarity to Mean Arena (bad) and a feel more reminiscent of Harlem Heroes/Inferno (good!).  Which way will it tip?

The Croakside Trip was a fitting end for Ace Trucking, and I feel like it went out strong.  Evil Blood grew on me as a character throughout the second run, and was at his best here.  Judge Dredd has come through a couple of inconsequential single-week stories recently (Otto Sump returning raised my spirits, but alas it wasn't to be), but it was great to have Esquerra back drawing him for The Man Who Knew Too Much.  Still, even if occasionally slight, I've never felt the NEXT Dredd to come along would not be amazing.  It's incredible that the strip has run so long and never gone though a really bad patch (as of Prog 440!)

Strontium Dog is similarly, although not quite as, good, but really consistently enjoyable.  And a huge surprise for me as I'm enjoying the return of Robohunter - the last few stories were so tired I was glad to see the end of them.  Who knows how long it'll last though, as Sam has serious form in tailing off...

[feathers]

470 - For Me, Strontium Dog has overtaken Dredd as the best strip in the comic.  It's been so consistent recently, where Dredd hasn't.  Ace Trucking's surprise return has been a delight as the first story might well have been the best ever, and two Ace Garps work together in a way that two Sam Slades didn't.  Speaking of which, Robo Hunter made it through to the end without the expected decline and is back in my good books.  Anderson's new story started with a supremely great cover for the 9th birthday prog, but doesn't feel too far removed from the last one.  Mean Team finished without really leaving much of an impression, so judgement will have to wait until it returns.  I haven't made my mind up yet on Bad City Blue either, but it's reminding me a bit of Disaster 1990 in a shoot first kind of way.  Sooner or Later is colourful, but with 1 page at a time seems disjointed and I can't tell if it's supposed to be out and out funny or not - which probably isn't good news.

[Colin YNWA]

470, so are you in Rage at the moment? If so one of my all time favourite thrills. I've just read The Moses Incident and while there are many Strontium Dog stories I love I think these two are the only ones that get close to Portrait of a Mutant as the best.

[feathers]

Yes, Rage has just started!  I really enjoyed the previous story, and to be honest I'm a bit unsure how it's going to carry on now without Wulf - him acting as Johnny's conscience (I just finished prog 474) is helping the transition though.  The whole comic feels really different now from where it was 2 years ago.

[Magnetica]

I always felt the last series of Ace Trucking was the weakest and no where near the level of the previous stories. But I haven't retread them since so it is interesting to hear your view. Here's hoping they turn up in the 2000AD Ulimate Collection.

[feathers]

I always felt the last series of Ace Trucking was the weakest and no where near the level of the previous stories. But I haven't retread them since so it is interesting to hear your view. Here's hoping they turn up in the 2000AD Ulimate Collection.

For me the weakest Ace Trucking story was the one about the bampot colony.  The uckpuck chicken one and the movieland one I'm currently reading are miles ahead -and much funnier, but I quite like all the 4th wall breaking that's going on with it now.

[feathers]

503 - Phew!  It's been a while since I posted, so here's a bit of a round-up: Bad City Blue and Sooner or Later didn't work out for me.  Strontium Dog is still brilliant - very glad he saw things through on Mayger Minor, and McNulty's revenge tale gave a comic echo of Rage.  Next up for murderous fury the Gronk?  Dredd has picked up again and seems to be getting darker too, but Nemesis book 6 is just magnificently gripping, detailed, and now involving so many characters that people can be doing little more than standing around arguing for weeks on end and it's STILL completely involving.  It's reaching a new level of greatness that was only hinted at before.  Slaine is maintaining it's quality too, and I'm enjoying it more than I thought I would.  These 4 staples mean that each prog at the moment is a breeze, I only worry that I'm reading them so quickly I'm not lingering over the incredible artwork - but the thrills have to keep coming!

On artwork, Metalzoic was more of a miss than a hit for me, but I'm sure this is due to it being prepared for colour presentation elsewhere - some of the detail was hard to decipher as the shading wasn't correct for black and white, so it lost a bit of impact.

Also, Tharg's Head Revisited - truly shocking (in what it said about the behind the scenes stuff)!  Incredible that this made publication, and a clear indication that the good times may soon be coming to an end.  Still, very excited to be at 1987 and to see what's coming next.

[Colin YNWA]

...but Nemesis book 6 is just magnificently gripping, detailed, and now involving so many characters that people can be doing little more than standing around arguing for weeks on end and it's STILL completely involving.  It's reaching a new level of greatness that was only hinted at before. 

Oh that's interesting. I'm really looking forward to re-evaluating the 'later' books of Nemesis - which to be honest I regard as anything after book 4 which is a bit silly of me! I've never held them in as high regard as the earlier books, they are pretty damned fine and I do really like them, but for some reason I always think of it being a slow decline in quality as the series continues beyond Gothic Empire.

Why is a little beyond me, as I think of the stories to come I can think of no reason why that would be and so I'm very much looking forward to getting my teeth into finding out.

[Dark Jimbo]

...but Nemesis book 6 is just magnificently gripping, detailed, and now involving so many characters that people can be doing little more than standing around arguing for weeks on end and it's STILL completely involving.  It's reaching a new level of greatness that was only hinted at before. 

Oh that's interesting. I'm really looking forward to re-evaluating the 'later' books of Nemesis - which to be honest I regard as anything after book 4 which is a bit silly of me! I've never held them in as high regard as the earlier books, they are pretty damned fine and I do really like them, but for some reason I always think of it being a slow decline in quality as the series continues beyond Gothic Empire.

Funnily enough I was just about to pick up on the same comment of feathers  - Bryan Talbot memorably describes Book 6 as 'a bunch of weirdoes stood arguing on a beach' and he's absolutely right, of course; and yet it's still enormously entertaining. Folk time and again trot out the old 'no good after Book 4' fallacy (sorry Colin!) but I found the Complete Nemesis volume II every bit as enjoyable as the first.

Grand Dragon Mazarin, the freck heresy, Satanus, 'Grandfather' Nostradamus, Candida kicking arse, the madness of Sister Sturn, Torquemada the God and his past lives... it's all gold, baby. For me it's when Hicklenton takes over that the strip starts feeling less essential, and from David Roach's Book 8 onward it does have a bit of a feel of treading water.

[feathers]

That's really interesting that you both said that - I would not have guessed that Book 4 was commonly held to be the high water mark for the series.  I can see that it might have got less fantastical as it went on, but as that happens it's also getting more coherent, and it doesn't feel like ideas are drying up or being recycled yet.