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Author Topic: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)  (Read 45135 times)

sheridan

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #270 on: 31 May, 2018, 08:30:48 PM »
More often than not, they actually do lasting damage to the prestige of their respective franchises - as in the case of Hobbit/LotR, Alien/Prometheus etc etc.


Interesting that you picked Alien/Prometheus.  How about Alien/Aliens?

Professor Bear

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #271 on: 31 May, 2018, 08:46:59 PM »
I think it was a really solid effort and if it had come out 2 years ago I'm sure it would have done a lot better. Unfortunately, it's following on from such a wave of Star wars disharmony created by last jedi that it was doomed from last December.

Apparently - and this is only based on what I've read and don't really know how these things work - that's apparently not true at all. While there is some strong anti-Last Jedi on dis 'ere Internet and fanboys are screaming its actually done fine.

Good critical reception, pretty decent box office (1.2 billion I believe but that's from memory and could be wrong) and very strong and positive audience ratings its A+ or some such. From what I've read the outrage is restricted to some fans on the internet and is unlikely to have impacted on Solo.

Last Jedi's aggregate scores have evened out over time, but as noted by many of our good selves on this very forum at the time, the audience opinion when it was playing in theaters was notably low to the point that a cottage industry emerged producing articles commenting upon the disparity between audience satisfaction and the official critical consensus* - and a lot of the articles concluded that a low audience satisfaction rating was all a nasty plot by Star Wars fans on the internet, naturally.  Those highly organised Star Wars fans on the internet who infamously know how to reach consensus... and then organise boycotts of Star Wars products which led to all those financial failures that Star Wars had...

Oddly, the same insightful and critical evaluation of audience satisfaction ratings that concluded that the highly effective Star Wars BDS campaign that had lowered the aggregate ratings for TLJ seemed to have gone on holiday once Last Jedi stopped playing theatrically and the ratings - for a film that no-one could watch anymore until it came out on home platforms - started to go up.  I guess there were just an awful lot of people who suddenly remembered that they really liked that movie and felt compelled to write a glowing review via an anonymous online account ahead of the home video release.
Kind of like that odd statistical blip where suddenly, just after Disney acquired Star Wars, a lot of websites completely off their own bat were publishing re-evaluations of the Prequels that all seemed to draw the conclusion that Star Wars wasn't actually dead after all and there was definitely loads of movies left in it that people should go and see in the cinema.


* which naturally also dragged in the Ghostbusters reboot and Star Trek Discovery as examples of "gatekeepers" in fandom exerting voodoo-like powers of mind control over casual cinema goers and tv watchers.

Frank

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #272 on: 31 May, 2018, 08:58:33 PM »
I think there's a larger point about prequels ...

Interesting that you picked Alien/Prometheus.  How about Alien/Aliens?

See text quoted in red above.



JOE SOAP

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #273 on: 31 May, 2018, 09:46:18 PM »
In the context of a behemoth like Star Wars, it takes more than a contingent of disgruntled fanboise/fangurls of the hardcore to decide not to turn up to account for Solo’s worldwide opening weekend shortfall. Solo didn’t generate the buzz and novelty tie-in nostalgia factor its precursor Rogue One managed, so the Star Wars agnostics of the general audience are just not that into this particular Star Wars/Han Solo film - the reasons for this are no doubt manifold, but I’m sure the other half of the faithful who will see any Star Wars film regardless, did exactly that.

Apart from the divisiveness, the thing that differentiates the new Star Wars from all other crossover franchises is that it isn’t following the basic sequential momentum of Marvel or even the Harry Potter prequels. With Marvel, the films big and small exist in a forward moving, progressive story so there’s value in always seeing the next film; especially in the run-up to, during and after, the Infinity War films. With Star Wars it’s jumping back and forth with character strands and timelines. The Sequel sequence has a follow-through but each installment is interrupted by off-shoots that are jumping backward, not directly connected to or necessary in terms of story: The Last Jedi doesn’t follow Rogue One, nor Solo The Last Jedi. No other franchise does this or has at least cracked how to do it yet.

It’s like mixing the platforms of telly and cinema; because Solo exists in the context of being a small story - it could’ve been 2 or 3 episodes of a Star Wars TV series - connected to the larger Star Wars franchise known mainly for lightsabers, Death Stars and Darth Vader’s extended family, the film they have could never manage to sell itself big enough. It’s not that scale of story, even relative to Rogue One, nor does it feature exuberance of Guardians of the Galaxy. Maybe Lord & Miller’s version might have been that but there’s also a chance the all ready disgruntled anti-Disneyites would’ve shat their hearts out in disgust over a more comedic Han Solo.

radiator

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #274 on: 31 May, 2018, 10:07:32 PM »
Quote
The Sequel sequence has a follow-through but each installment is interrupted by off-shoots that are jumping backward, not directly connected to or necessary in terms of story: The Last Jedi doesn’t follow Rogue One, nor Solo The Last Jedi

Yeah, and yet I've spoken to people who I'm 90% sure weren't aware that Rogue One wasn't a direct sequel to The Force Awakens...

Perhaps they'd have been better off doing the spin-offs as TV series...?

JOE SOAP

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #275 on: 31 May, 2018, 10:25:02 PM »
Yeah, and yet I've spoken to people who I'm 90% sure weren't aware that Rogue One wasn't a direct sequel to The Force Awakens...

Which would've been a bit shit if they expected to find out how Lone Starr & Princess Vespa got so old and why each forgot where the other one was.

The audience is a a big pile of what the fuckeries.

JOE SOAP

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #276 on: 31 May, 2018, 11:47:20 PM »

Gosh yeah, fan appeasement, that'll make for a great film no doubt.> Points at putrid mess that is RotS <.

I think the majority of episode 3 haters now look back and wish new star wars was that good! 😂

Aside from the pushing aside of jar jar, how did episode 3 appease fans?

Every story beat was already established by the original trilogy wasn't it? It was more an exercise in box ticking than fan appeasement, but the very nature of the film made that unavoidable.  Granted, we could have done without some of the silly inclusions, such as the death star construction and yoda off to dagobah, but the rest (the core anakin storyline) sort of had to happen didn't it?

I think box-ticking is akin to appeasement in Star Wars or any long term fandom - the wanting to see it happen. It's a telegraphing exercise that hurt the original films' dramatic reveals by spelling out where everyone and everything came from and where they ended up before it's revealed in the OT.

Mr. Lucas didn't think the "I, am your father" reveal or the secret of the Skywalker lineage was worth preserving and for a new viewer of the series starting at Episode 1 (which is the intended logical viewing order now the films are all made) wouldn't it be better not knowing beforehand that Luke & Leia are twins, where they ended up, or that Kenobi hid Luke on Tattooine?


All of these things and more were avoidable in telling the story of the rise of the Empire and decline of the Jedi Knights.




radiator

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #277 on: 01 June, 2018, 12:41:53 AM »
Quote
Aside from the pushing aside of jar jar, how did episode 3 appease fans?

I've always been of the opinion that Episode I is by far the most confident of the prequels, and feels the most like it's own film. I think it's pretty clear that Lucas changed course quite a bit due to criticism of The Phantom Menace - most of all sidelining Jar Jar Binks, but also leaning heavily into the few things people actually liked about TPM - namely the action scenes/lightsaber duels. There's other things, like making fan-favourite character Boba Fett a central character in Episode II, the silly Yoda fights scenes, the extended Chewie cameo in Ep III etc etc.

Dandontdare

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #278 on: 01 June, 2018, 08:36:19 AM »
Though I don't agree with the ridiculous wave of hatred that's been spouted for the last 5 months from a large portion of the star wars community,

An odd comment considering how much of it has come from you!

Professor Bear

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #279 on: 01 June, 2018, 10:53:46 AM »
In the context of a behemoth like Star Wars, it takes more than a contingent of disgruntled fanboise/fangurls of the hardcore to decide not to turn up to account for Solo’s worldwide opening weekend shortfall.

Hardcore fans are a small group used to ridicule and arguing online about their opinion with randos, but starting with The Last Jedi, the wider world of normals have to put up with that shit, too.
There are literally billions of people on social media, and I suspect it might be possible that having the Pavlovian impression that Star Wars is the Flying Dutchman of internet discussion might impact the decision to see another movie and/or express an opinion on it.

JamesC

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #280 on: 01 June, 2018, 11:59:30 AM »
While it may be a bit of a flop relatively speaking, loads of people have still been to see it and loads more will continue to do so.
I think the timing must have hurt takings. Not everyone can afford to go to the cinema 3 or 4 times a month and with this coming hot on the heels of Ininity War and Deadpool and just a short while before Jurassic World it's a no brainer that the audience for all these films has to some extent been divided between them.

SIP

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #281 on: 01 June, 2018, 01:13:20 PM »
Though I don't agree with the ridiculous wave of hatred that's been spouted for the last 5 months from a large portion of the star wars community,

An odd comment considering how much of it has come from you!

Did I miss that? I haven't made any comment regarding star wars on any forum or social media, with the exception of saying I didn't like last jedi on this forum. Along with multiple other forum members.

How does that make me guilty of a "wave of hatred"?

I'm no more guilty of a wave of hatred than tordel being guilty of a wave of fan boy love by stating that he liked it!

That's a complete nonsense comment sir.

I'm just back from seeing solo for a second time too.

TordelBack

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #282 on: 01 June, 2018, 07:19:53 PM »
...tordel being guilty of a wave of fan boy love ...

As charged, baby. As. Charged. 

Although I prefer the terms 'tsunami of adoring joy juice', or just 'tumultuous viscous emission of passion".

Man don't like the movie, man is entitled to say so: SIP has been sadly consistent.  My main interest in The 'Wars Wars these days is in the reality of the Disney astroturfing of the Prequels that Bear refers to: the positive shift in apparent online attitudes to Lucas and his red-headed step-children is definitely a verifiable phenomenon, which I have largely ascribed to a generational shift (i.e. that drivel now represents the same childhood nostalgia fodder for 20-somethings that the far superior originals are for our cohort).  But I'd love to know the truth.
« Last Edit: 01 June, 2018, 07:28:17 PM by TordelBack »

SIP

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #283 on: 01 June, 2018, 08:46:53 PM »
It'll all be interesting to look back on in years to come......

There are clearly multiple reasons contributing to the reception to new Star wars, all stated here, from fatigue, to erratic timelines, to bad timing and to disgruntled fans. There have ALWAYS been disgruntled fans, plenty about when the prequels happened, they just have the ability to make more noise now.

I was never a prequels hater, my true love is the original trilogy, but I can take enjoyment from most of what came after 1983, from the games, comics, novels, cartoons and films.

I hope they get it back on track with a more cohesive approach. I enjoyed Solo a lot, I liked bits of Rogue One (but think it's a messy film), I enjoyed most of force awakens, and my last jedi thoughts are well noted above......hopefully Lucasfilm can deliver a really great Episode 9 that can make a positive impact. It probably helps that it's 18 months away too, to give people time to build up a little excitement for some new star wars.
« Last Edit: 01 June, 2018, 08:52:57 PM by SIP »

JOE SOAP

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
« Reply #284 on: 01 June, 2018, 09:21:31 PM »
There have ALWAYS been disgruntled fans, plenty about when the prequels happened, they just have the ability to make more noise now.

The difference is there's now 3 generations of disgruntled fans, all with varying opinions and allegiances.