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Author Topic: Wonder Woman 2017  (Read 16286 times)

JOE SOAP

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #30 on: 06 June, 2017, 11:11:43 pm »
Produced and Story co-written by Zack Snyder I should point out.

Re-written by Patty Jenkins and Geoff Johns, I believe. Since he was the originator of this iteration of the basic story, Writers Guild arbitration (and possibly part of his credit as Producer) would mean Zack Snyder gets a screen-credit, whereas other writers who followed, and may have contributed more, get nowt but paid. Similar thing happened on Guardians of the Galaxy, apparently – Nicole Perlman wrote the first draft but James Gunn completely re-wrote it as a new script with a different story. Both get a screen-credit.

It's possible all that remains of Snyder's idea is not much more than Wonder Woman set during World War One.

SIP

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #31 on: 07 June, 2017, 06:47:17 am »
Or its entirely equally possible that Snyder wrote all the best bits. It's all conjecture.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #32 on: 07 June, 2017, 07:32:32 am »
It's possible all that remains of Snyder's idea is not much more than Wonder Woman set during World War One.

Hollywood screenwriting credits have been a complete mystery to me ever since, many years ago, I read an interview with Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade co-writer Jeffery Boam, in which he revealed that George Lucas' contribution to the screenplay was literally no more than a 'laundry list' of story elements (Nazis, Holy Grail, Indy's Dad).

Then, I discovered a couple of months ago, that Boam's screenplay was the subject of an extensive, uncredited re-write by Tom-frickin'-Stoppard. Baffling…

(See also: a movie-tie comic I worked on a few years back which, despite being based on a chapter of the original book not used in the movie, required that either the movie screenwriters were credited and paid alongside the comic writers, or that all reference to the comic writers was removed from the strip…)
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Jim_Campbell

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #33 on: 07 June, 2017, 07:34:36 am »
Or its entirely equally possible that Snyder wrote all the best bits. It's all conjecture.

Given that the film is strikingly un-Snyder-ish in not only tone but philosophy, the logical conclusion is that he had a lot less to do with the finished movie than other films with his name on…
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JOE SOAP

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #34 on: 07 June, 2017, 12:59:13 pm »
Or its entirely equally possible that Snyder wrote all the best bits. It's all conjecture.

Going by the accreditation it's not too much conjecture and it's not an 'equal' possibility at all because he didn't write the actual screenplay. 2 other screenwriters also get 'story' credit - Allan Heinberg and Jason Fuchs - then the first script drafts were written by Allan Heinberg, then rewrites by Jenkins and Geoff Johns - so it's doubtful Snyder wrote much or any of that script, nevermind the 'best bits'. Some story beats or action concepts might remain but at the end of the day he wasn't the one to make them work on the page and ultimately on-screen.

Of course there's also whatever uncredited stuff was also lifted from the comics.

JOE SOAP

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #35 on: 07 June, 2017, 02:18:19 pm »
Then, I discovered a couple of months ago, that Boam's screenplay was the subject of an extensive, uncredited re-write by Tom-frickin'-Stoppard. Baffling…


...and then Stoppard and Carrie Fisher did some doctoring on the prequels. A good wage, I'd say.

The arbitration on the 1995 Judge Dredd film went back as far as 1985 to the very first writer to have worked on it, comic writer Jan Strnad:

Roger Ebert's Questions to the Answer Man – Reno Gazette, 20th July 1995







Jim_Campbell

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #36 on: 07 June, 2017, 02:47:20 pm »
...and then Stoppard and Carrie Fisher did some doctoring on the prequels. A good wage, I'd say.

That article I linked above on Stoppard's re-write is an essential read for writers in any medium, BTW.

Quote
The arbitration on the 1995 Judge Dredd film went back as far as 1985 to the very first writer to have worked on it, comic writer Jan Strnad:

That's excellent!
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SIP

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #37 on: 07 June, 2017, 06:10:16 pm »
Would it be fair to say that I sense a strong anti-Zack Snyder under current?

Truth is, we don't have the first clue who wrote what, so it isn't even remotely fair or even to suggest that he probably had no hand in "the good bits".

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #38 on: 07 June, 2017, 07:29:37 pm »
Would it be fair to say that I sense a strong anti-Zack Snyder under current?

It's no secret that I detest the values he's instilled in every superhero movie he's made (that I've seen). There's a consistent theme running through them that Wonder Woman doesn't share. I've already said that if it was Snyder's decision to eschew his previous Rand-ian grimness, he deserves credit for that.
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JOE SOAP

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #39 on: 07 June, 2017, 07:37:34 pm »
Would it be fair to say that I sense a strong anti-Zack Snyder under current?

On my part, I wouldn't call a discussion on the arcane and often unfair nature of Hollywood accreditation that. I'm really suggesting it's more a Patty Jenkins film than Zack Snyder's and it's the film it is mostly because of how the director managed to turn it around in the long process from script to screen. If you feel a need to defend Zack's honour in this regard, so be it, but I'm not a 'DC universe' fan, so I don't really have a dog in this race – though I like both Dawn of the Dead and 300.


Truth is, we don't have the first clue who wrote what, so it isn't even remotely fair or even to suggest that he probably had no hand in "the good bits".

No, we don't, but it's more a matter of proportional credit for me. We know he didn't write the screenplay, so what might've been early ideas for a story hashed-out between Snyder, Fuchs and Heinberg, weren't actually scenes until Heinberg wrote them and Jenkin's rewrote and directed them – so I don't think it's fair to suggest Snyder might've 'wrote all the best bits', either, when others knocked it into something that could work as a shootable script. At the end of the day the person most responsible for the film's success is the director and apart from mimicking Snyderesque speed-ramping in the action scenes, the storytelling doesn't feel particularly 'Zack Snyder' to me – so take from that what you will.

Paraphrasing what veteran Producer Charles Roven has said – of all the films he's ever worked on, it's the one with the most writers.

http://collider.com/wonder-woman-script-changes-writers-charles-roven/








« Last Edit: 07 June, 2017, 07:45:04 pm by JOE SOAP »

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #40 on: 07 June, 2017, 07:51:36 pm »
It's certainly nothing like the tone of the Nolan Batman films. I think if you after more of that then you won't find it in Wonder Woman.


Didn't really expect to - I just meant a good film about a DC character I know a bit about.  Like I say, I know feck-all about the Marvel Universe.
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

SIP

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #41 on: 07 June, 2017, 07:56:24 pm »
It's okay, I have no intention of "defending" Zack Snyder, that all comes down to a matter of personal taste in the end. BVS did well enough at the box office to demonstrate enough of a fan base. I'm sure Wonder Woman will do equally well.

I was just offering the point that we do not definitely know who had what degree of input into the films story, regardless of the theorising going on here.

People are quick to insult Zack Snyder when he has his name on a film that they don't like, but equally quick to excuse his involvement entirely from a film that they do like. And that's not directed at anyone here, just a general vibe that I get from the broader comics community.

We can all put an argument forward, but it doesn't make it so!

SIP

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #42 on: 07 June, 2017, 07:57:14 pm »
It's certainly nothing like the tone of the Nolan Batman films. I think if you after more of that then you won't find it in Wonder Woman.


Didn't really expect to - I just meant a good film about a DC character I know a bit about.  Like I say, I know feck-all about the Marvel Universe.

In that case - absolutely go, it was good fun. I'm off to see it again on Saturday with the kids.
« Last Edit: 07 June, 2017, 07:58:45 pm by SIP »

Eamonn Clarke

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #43 on: 08 June, 2017, 08:16:20 am »
Nice to see Ewen Bremner getting a good part, and that he gets to carry his Spud gun.  :lol:

My coat? How kind



He'd make a great Middenface btw,

positronic

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Re: Wonder Woman 2017
« Reply #44 on: 08 June, 2017, 09:50:06 am »
Gadot is definitely the DC movie universe's Chris Evans, just absolutely embodying clear-eyed heroic decency and a fierce moral centre.


Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman.
Now the world is ready for you,
and the wonders you can do.

Make a hawk a dove,
Stop a war with love,
Make a liar tell the truth.


"Make a hawk a dove, stop a war with love"... That was essentially my biggest problem with the script. I didn't see any of Diana as the ambassador of the Amazonian philosophy of love and peace in this movie. I guess because I didn't even see that the Amazons in this movie even had any sort of philosophy like that.

I think Gal Gadot was very charismatic (and convincing in the action scenes) and tried to show some glimpses of a sensibility of social justice, but that was about it. In the film Diana believes she's a living weapon, "the Godkiller", and joins the war effort with the express purpose of seeking out Ares to kill him, thinking that this will bring about an immediate cessation of hostilities -- but it doesn't, even after she finds the real Ares. Then there's a tragicomic bit where she mentions "I don't understand why they didn't stop fighting." There's a bit of lip service given in the framing sequences where she comments on her naivete, but the script seems to miss the heart of the character's message of love and peace. As with the prior Man of Steel film, I don't think it's ever a good idea to begin your movie franchise by having your superhero KILL the villain, no matter how evil he might be. The hero might be shown to be more powerful than the villain, but might doesn't make right. Characters like Superman or Wonder Woman should aspire to higher ideals, and find a better way.


I guess it's not surprising that the Amazons aren't really portrayed as espousing a philosophy of love & peace, since none of the usual matron goddesses are even mentioned -- Athena, Hera, Aphrodite, Demeter, or Diana. In fact the film reduces the complexity of the Greek mythological pantheon to a very simplistic sort of black & white; Zeus = good/creator, Ares = evil/destroyer.

The movie is certainly satisfying as a pure action vehicle, but I was hoping for a little more.

Spoilers added
« Last Edit: 08 June, 2017, 12:55:04 pm by Bolt-01 »