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Author Topic: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi  (Read 42515 times)

SIP

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #855 on: 03 February, 2018, 02:39:23 pm »
I like this idea that the new Star Wars movies haven't been fan-pleasing exercises so far.

Who said that?

If you visit any of the star wars related forums, or star wars hot toys forums etc, there is a seemingly significant proportion of the "fan" community (the hardcore) that aren't happy at all Colin.

I use the word seemingly 😊

The apparent displeasure of the hardcore will not really have been felt at the box office for TLJ because they were all there at the first screenings.....booked and paid for months in advance.
« Last Edit: 03 February, 2018, 02:44:28 pm by SIP »

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #856 on: 03 February, 2018, 03:12:07 pm »
Simon ain't wrong.  I have no way of judging how representative the more vituperative haterz are of fans in general,  or whether they are just one more tragically vocal chorus of manbabies sourced from the Internet's endless parade, but all the SW forums I ever peek at are now war zones. And not just the men.  The women and the children too.

Of course Disney makes fan-pleasing (i.e. profit-maximising at various timescales) movies,  the issue is how they judge what pleases fans. And if I was a Disney shareholder glancing over social media I might suspect that non-white non-male (and just in case) non-straight characters and any deviation from expectation are not high on the want-list.

And that would be shit for everyone.

As it is,  I suspect the familiar human garbage of Twitter's New Empire are just dominating the discussion,  and aside from the reasonable folks who just didn't like the direction taken,  I suspect most fans are still on board.  At least until Solo.
« Last Edit: 03 February, 2018, 03:18:57 pm by TordelBack »

Professor Bear

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #857 on: 03 February, 2018, 03:46:10 pm »
And if I was a Disney shareholder glancing over social media I might suspect that non-white non-male (and just in case) non-straight characters and any deviation from expectation are not high on the want-list.

Hit and run whataboutery might be common, but by and large, Twitter reflects the taste of the user, hence those people who follow opposing political or critical opinions tend to be the first ones complaining about extremists on the other side of the fence and those who follow them fall in behind.
Shareholders will find their own opinions reflected back at them, or - most likely - they'll avoid SW fandom because organised fandom is increasingly seen as the enemy by corporate interests who naturally want to control the narratives surrounding their products.
It's no coincidence that TLJ enthusiasts (and Star Trek Discovery enthusiasts before them, and Ghostbusters enthusiasts before them) are pushing a narrative that sees them as noble progressives standing against a detestable hoard represented by low audience satisfaction scores.

SIP

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #858 on: 03 February, 2018, 04:27:10 pm »
It's a very tricky thing to judge......but the core fanbase for Star wars must be one of the biggest fan communities in the world?

The main chunk of the offended will be the 40 to 50 year old males......the OT fanboys. That's my demographic (and yours too TB?). I wonder just how many there are......

I'm a 1/6 figure collector so also frequent the Hot Toys/Sideshow forums.
Now, it's mostly the hardcore that will pay £200- £300 for a star wars figure.......i suspect not your casual fan.

So, Hot Toys star wars customers will mostly be made up of this irritated group of people. A lot of those collectors on the forums have stated outright that they will now not be buying/preordering any of the Last Jedi figures produced......so Hot toys for one will acutely feel any backlash. What may not be a dent in Disneys profits could certainly prove to be a dent in Hot Toys.

I think in the short term, it'll be the high end merchandise for the film that suffers.......I'm really curious to see the blu ray sales, though I suspect they'll be consistent.

Disney has 18  months for the hardcore to calm down and make some peace with the TLJ......hopefully the Han Solo movie will be the thing that calms them down....then they may well all pre book their tickets for Episode 9 regardless of their hysterics.

I'll be there......as I want to see the conclusion to the Kylo/Rey story and, well, it's Star wars.  It would be like not going to one of my children's school plays! 😊
« Last Edit: 03 February, 2018, 04:30:06 pm by SIP »

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #859 on: 03 February, 2018, 04:42:28 pm »
It's no coincidence that TLJ enthusiasts (and Star Trek Discovery enthusiasts before them, and Ghostbusters enthusiasts before them) are pushing a narrative that sees them as noble progressives standing against a detestable hoard represented by low audience satisfaction scores.

Bit of Worzel Gummidge there, no? I'm never going to apologise for aspiring (though usually failing) to progress, but this isn't about demonising notional people who don't like the film (like many here, apparently): there is a very real and very noisy cadre of the genuinely detestable weighing in. As with Brexit as with Trump (or at least anti-Clinton),  there are sane people who have different but understandable views, but then there is the living cultural detritus that attaches itself to that side of the argument and through the magic of generating monetisable eyeballs come to dominate the debate.

Calling racist sexist narrow-minded shit-stirring attention-hungry scum what they are isn't the same as defining yourself as a noble paladin of the one true and loving ideology, defending the gates of fandom from the barbarian horde.

Incidentally,  I don't like TLJ,  Ghostbusters 2016 or Discovery because they are 'progressive': I liked them all because I enjoyed them.
« Last Edit: 03 February, 2018, 04:47:54 pm by TordelBack »

Professor Bear

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #860 on: 03 February, 2018, 06:36:11 pm »
Actually, I fudged that comment above: I meant to say that TLJ enthusiasts (and STD/Ghostbusters fans) were at the forefront of a narrative pushed by corporate marketing and astroturfers who cynically magnify appalling opinions from utter bellends, not that the enthusiasts were creating that narrative themselves for the purposes of - urgh... I'm really going to say it - virtue signalling, which is how my comment reads.  I apologise if it read like a dig.

You don't have to justify liking something to me, TB, though now you've brought it up, I'm thinking another one of my 5000 word essays on why you're all wrong about Batman & Robin and/or Star Trek 5 is long overdue.
There have always been detestable scum in the fanbases - just ask Tharg his opinions on the forum - it's just that now the detestable scum are presented as the default setting of fandom rather than the tiny minority that feels compelled to voice their entitled man-baby opinions as loudly and obnoxiously as possible.  I'm not arguing that these types don't deserve scorn and ridicule, I'm just worried that the end result will be a crackdown on dissenting opinion rather than a rise in better-articulated arguments based entirely on objective assessment.
« Last Edit: 03 February, 2018, 06:40:09 pm by Professor Bear »

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #861 on: 04 February, 2018, 09:08:26 am »
Fair do's,  Prof.  I've certainly seen corporate interests adopt this kind of defensive narrative,  but not,  I think, any more than creatives and fans have always done in the spirit of the crowd praising the Supreme Leader's New Clothes. And when presented with a mob of known fuckwits pushing to the front of the crowd,  it's tempting to point them out as the source of dissent.

Have we had this analysis on here yet?  It's over a month old,  so I don't know how it's conclusions have aged,  and by the author's admission its methodology was very constrained,  but it's certainly interesting reading.
« Last Edit: 04 February, 2018, 09:10:46 am by TordelBack »

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #862 on: 04 February, 2018, 09:20:18 am »
"..its conclusions...".  I swear I must have run over auto-correct's dog,  it hates me that much.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #863 on: 04 February, 2018, 01:42:44 pm »
Ghostbusters 2016
Still annoyed about that one – because I wanted to see what happened next.

Leigh S

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #864 on: 04 February, 2018, 06:35:08 pm »
I have no opinion onf the Star Wars film (not seen it), but this does seem to be a problem with the internet in general perhaps, or at least exacerbated by it, from Ghostbusters to the Labour Anti-semitic rows, it is very easy to take a worse case example and conflate that with all criticism - I am reminded of Russle T Davies very successful "ming mong" defence of any criticism of his Who tenure

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #865 on: 04 February, 2018, 07:03:43 pm »
...it is very easy to take a worse case example and conflate that with all criticism...

True, but if only that 'worse case' was ever a lone example!  I was very pleasantly surprised by Nu-Ghostbusters, it was far from perfect, but in no way deserved the dogpile of hate it appeared to receive.  It really doesn't take much to see the films (and other media) selected for this treatment as having common elements, specifically being perceived as trespassing on the piss-stained white-male-victim territory of the GamerGate fucks and their equally pathetic successors.  Valid criticisms may well get lost, and indeed conflated with this regressive prickery, in any attempts to counter this flow of shite, but let's be honest if childish here: they started it.

Leigh S

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #866 on: 04 February, 2018, 07:18:32 pm »
...it is very easy to take a worse case example and conflate that with all criticism...

True, but if only that 'worse case' was ever a lone example!  I was very pleasantly surprised by Nu-Ghostbusters, it was far from perfect, but in no way deserved the dogpile of hate it appeared to receive.  It really doesn't take much to see the films (and other media) selected for this treatment as having common elements, specifically being perceived as trespassing on the piss-stained white-male-victim territory of the GamerGate fucks and their equally pathetic successors.  Valid criticisms may well get lost, and indeed conflated with this regressive prickery, in any attempts to counter this flow of shite, but let's be honest if childish here: they started it.

Yeah, there's a huge swathe of invalid criticism that is motivated by the critics own insecurities and crazies.  From a GB point of view, I havent seen the new one or the original all the way through, but I do recall it having some issues with its portrayal of women in those opening scenes, so making an all female version was bound to rattle some unpleasant cages. 

Waiter: "was your meal to your satisfaction?"
Diner 1: "well it was a little slow and a bit undercook-"
Diner 2: "You bastards! You just reheated a ready meal - IT'S A READY MEAL! I SAW THE PACKETS!"

The waiter can walk away with a clear conscience that there's some crazy folk out there, but that meal might well have needed another 5 minutes... But it is tempting and actually a smart move to write off the whole shebang of disgruntleds as a singular basket of deplorable "ming mongs".

And it is great for silencing valid criticism, becuase I dont want to put myself in that basket with the kind of peolpe who happily use phrases sucha s "snowflake", "SJW", "Virtue Signalling" etc

JOE SOAP

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #867 on: 25 June, 2018, 10:24:00 pm »
Hope those #Remake producers are listening to the fans and not the SJW/MARXIST/WOKE/CUCK/DICK-KNOCKERS. Tru-Fans have it sorted.

Here's How Disney Can Fix Episode IX! - Saving Star Wars

« Last Edit: 25 June, 2018, 10:26:17 pm by JOE SOAP »

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #868 on: 25 June, 2018, 10:44:18 pm »
Yeah, I saw that one.  It's spectacular in the degree to which it honours Luke's teachings:  "Amazing. Every word you just said was wrong".

I so want to know where this sort of thing comes from:  "Let him show how badass he really is: bring back Luke Mother-effing Skywalker".  What movie was that guy in?  Hell, what game, comic or book was he in?  Nothing EU Luke did showed as much power, mastery and cunning as the trick he pulls at the end of TLJ, or for my money, as much understanding of how to square the circle of being an order of warrior monks, and how to use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. 

I also love how he exhorts JJ to include spectacular lightsabre battles: now that the technology exists to do it. I...
« Last Edit: 25 June, 2018, 10:48:54 pm by TordelBack »

JOE SOAP

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #869 on: 25 June, 2018, 10:51:13 pm »



I also love how he exhorts JJ to include spectacular lightsabre battles: now that the technology exists to do it. I...

For reals this time.

Not just Luke that needs to be a badass, everyone does, apparently.

It's the only way to save Star Wars: "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope. We need Da Force. We need Da Badass back."