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Author Topic: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection  (Read 506837 times)

jannerboyuk

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1260 on: 26 November, 2017, 07:15:25 PM »
It's a classic mistake to think that someone who likes sex must be a sexist - Dante's almost a feminist in his championing of the female sex, and he never made advances on anyone who wasn't receptive (Jena the very notable exception!) He is a bit one-track minded and immature, but he's constantly called out on it by most other characters later on.
indeed. He makes an outraged point about consent to the woman in rudenstein. Strikes me as a classic 2000ad character, deeply flawed but when faced with a moral dilemma has a strong sense of social justice. See risking his life to steal enough money to stop the citizens of rudenstein being sold in serfdom for example.

Tjm86

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1261 on: 26 November, 2017, 07:46:07 PM »
There's standing up for social justice, and then there's just plain ole virtue signalling, which I'm seeing more and more of these days.

Not sure I'm in complete agreement there.  An old comment along those lines:

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.

That said, the way this discussion seems to be heading highlights a danger in the old #metoo meme.  I would agree that there is a perception that any kind of sexualised behaviour or entertainment is risky.  Comments about SJW's and PC madness undermine the legitimate concerns that in certain industries predatory behaviour has run unchecked for years.  The perception of hysteria feeds into this and undermines attempts to clean out the swamp.

Popular entertainment has always had to tread a fine line on these issues.  Tordels makes a good point with regard to how far the pendulum has swung.  We are long way from Mary Whitehouse's day.  That said, it is still slightly schizophrenic at times.  If Dante had been written 10 years earlier it may well have gotten tooth pulled from the shelves.  Today?  I do think you are correct to question whether it would be so well received.  It is very much a creature of its time as is so much popular culture.  At the same time though, Dante evolved as a character. 

Super Mario

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1262 on: 26 November, 2017, 07:55:53 PM »
I'm glad someone finally spoke up about all these hypothetical sjws virtue signalling over Nikolai Dante. Bravo.

marko10174

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1263 on: 26 November, 2017, 07:59:03 PM »
the modern day sjw's ability to apply reason and logic.

Another one for the ignore list. Sigh.

 Seriously? I think you're being a bit touchy there.

marko10174

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1264 on: 26 November, 2017, 08:01:19 PM »
I'm glad someone finally spoke up about all these hypothetical sjws virtue signalling over Nikolai Dante. Bravo.

 I didn't say anyone was virtue signalling over Nikolai Dante. I was implying that I personally see more and more people virtue signalling in today's social climate. I wasn't addressing anyone in this thread.

Super Mario

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1265 on: 26 November, 2017, 08:13:34 PM »
Well if no one is actuallu doing it why are you moaning about it here.

Jade Falcon

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1266 on: 26 November, 2017, 08:22:35 PM »
I've heard of Nikolai Dante, but don't really know anything about him, so I'll go into it with an open mind.

Bear in mind my tastes have got some stuff that's regarded as a bit.....crap (Helltreckers, the VC's, etc).

Plus another strip I got the collection of would probably be regarded as a touch mildly politically incorrect these days and thats the Trigan Empire.

Anyway, so far the Collection has varied, but like the Dredd one I'm getting to read a lot of stuff for the first time.  And there's no doubt these books are good value, a shave under a tenner for a decent sized hardback when you consider what, say, an average graphic novel costs nowadays. 

marko10174

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1267 on: 26 November, 2017, 08:28:11 PM »
Well if no one is actuallu doing it why are you moaning about it here.

 Super Mario, I'm not. I was interested in the idea of how ND would fare in today's political and social climate, in regards to political correctness and what. I thought it would make for an interesting dialogue, ironically I was just talking about how easily people are offended these days, and well... here we are.

EDazzling

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1268 on: 26 November, 2017, 08:54:28 PM »
I don't think anyone is offended, just, really, really, really bored.

marko10174

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1269 on: 26 November, 2017, 09:03:12 PM »

 Fair do's.

Super Mario

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1270 on: 26 November, 2017, 09:09:06 PM »
No one would care about any of that stuff if ND ran today. Glad I could clear that up.

TordelBack

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1271 on: 26 November, 2017, 09:11:34 PM »
I personally see more and more people virtue signalling in today's social climate.

How do you distinguish 'virtue signalling' (misapplied sociobiological terminology) from speaking up for what's right?  But look, I'm dragging us off topic again.

I am intrigued by the idea that only out-and-out villains are allowed misbehave in contemporary TV fiction (and allowed by whom?).  Coming back to the simple example of GoT, who isn't a villain by those standards?  Tyrion? Jaimie? Daenerys?  All nasty pieces of work, but also our heroes.  Who is the hero in Breaking Bad?  The Sopranos?  Dante is no saint, but he never claimed to be, nor does he escape the readers' judgement: right to the last page we don't know which way he'll jump.   What he is is a compelling protagonist, and just like Walter White or Jaimie Lannister, we love him because we know he's capable of doing the right thing, and we hope he will, despite all evidence to the contrary.  It's the potential for being better that makes these guys interesting interesting (plus the fun of watching all their transgressions).

As a wise man said rather more than once, heroes be damned.

The issue here for me is that this is all fiction: no people were harmed in the making.  The other stuff you talk about is in the real world, and it's a endless river of unnecessary pain that needs to be, maybe is being, addressed.

« Last Edit: 26 November, 2017, 09:16:57 PM by TordelBack »

Jade Falcon

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1272 on: 26 November, 2017, 09:49:10 PM »
Using Game of Thrones as an example, the ultimate of course is the Hound.  He started off as a total and complete sod, and he's not much better in his attitude now.  Part of it is he hates himself as much as he hates those round about him.

iainkey

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1273 on: 26 November, 2017, 10:39:46 PM »
Hi all,

Started subscribing from issue 2 & loving it as stopped reading 2000AD back in the Nineties so loving the series as getting to reread classics & experience a lot of what I consider the "newer" stuff for the first time.

Quick query though, got home & received a parcel but only containing one book Issue 6 "Kingdom Vol. 1" & a cheap tatty wallet. Only been charged for one book but just wondered if anyone had experienced this? Maybe so they can send me out a parcel of two books before Xmas?


Same here, I wondered about this too...


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Tjm86

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Re: 2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection
« Reply #1274 on: 27 November, 2017, 05:41:01 PM »
the modern day sjw's ability to apply reason and logic.

Another one for the ignore list. Sigh.

 Seriously? I think you're being a bit touchy there.

Don't mind Jim.  He's a bit gruff but harmless.  Just buy him a pint and make nice noises about Comic Sans and he'll be rolling over for you to scratch his tummy in no time.   ;)