PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES

[blackmocco]

The captains we're familiar with would have put Mudd and Whatsisname on the two-man fighter and stayed behind (except that Whatsisname would have been killed before launching so the captain would have escaped anyway). Also, Lorca killing his entire previous crew and surviving seems unlikely as well. How would an officer who did that remain a captain in Starfleet? That just leaves a bad taste.

Yeah, but that's the point. We've never actually followed a starship captain in one of these shows who was anything less than noble and pure. I like we're seeing a broken man in charge for a change. It's a darker path for sure, but the rest of the crew don't share his problems, thankfully. Stamets argues with him, Saru has made clear to Burnham he doesn't approve of the way Lorca runs the ship. This is all headed to a conflict of ethics at some point and with Burnham's history of bucking command, I think it's a pretty obvious roadmap.

In saying that, yeah, it seems weird that Lorca's still in charge after that tale (if that's the true tale we heard. He may have been passing on fake info to test his fellow prisoners and their loyalty). Unless Starfleet handed over the reins to someone they knew doesn't share their ideals and ethics in oder to win the war, war being a situation they've bonked us over the head with since episode 1 that they're not familiar or comfortable with. Something doesn't quite add up there yet, but I doubt they're going to leave that just hanging there.

[Goaty]

Paging ABCWarbot… ABCWarbot to the homophobia subthread…

And this thread will be locked too.

[TordelBack]

Look, if it helps just think of the Federation as The Culture, Starfleet as Contact, and Lorca as some borderline psychotic Special Circumstances asset that they wheel out when faced with an O.C.P.

As to the rest: The pilot of TOS featured a deformed old lady seducing Capt. Pike; the second episode of TNG had a horny Doctor try to seduce Picard, and Tasha making use of Data's 'multiple techniques'; the pilot of DS9 had a young doctor lusting after a 300 year old intestinal parasite.  But two blokes brushing their teeth together?  Too far!

You humans are crazy.

[The Legendary Shark]

Anyway. I might give it one more episode but that's it for me, I'm afraid. I am glad most everyone else likes it, though, and I really want to be turned around on this. Stranger things have happened.

[Smith]

The captains we're familiar with would have put Mudd and Whatsisname on the two-man fighter and stayed behind (except that Whatsisname would have been killed before launching so the captain would have escaped anyway). Also, Lorca killing his entire previous crew and surviving seems unlikely as well. How would an officer who did that remain a captain in Starfleet? That just leaves a bad taste.

Good point.
But again,they had no way of knowing what kinda craft would they steal.If all 3 of them found then ship and then ditched Mudd,it wouldnt be that much of a problem.
I got this weird feeling this was meant to be a gritty reboot of Space Above and Beyond,but they changed it to ST during development.

[The Legendary Shark]

"Space: Above and Beyond," wow - there's a blast from the past! I loved that show!

[JamesC]

The captains we're familiar with would have put Mudd and Whatsisname on the two-man fighter and stayed behind (except that Whatsisname would have been killed before launching so the captain would have escaped anyway). Also, Lorca killing his entire previous crew and surviving seems unlikely as well. How would an officer who did that remain a captain in Starfleet? That just leaves a bad taste.

We don't know enough details about this story to make a sound judgement.
The fact that Lorca killed the crew was his confession - we don't know that anyone in Starfleet is aware of that detail (or even if it's true. It could quite easily be a detail designed to test the new guy. If he hears that rumour at a later date he'll know the new guy isn't to be trusted).
A captain being off-ship during a dangerous situation doesn't sound too unusual.

At the moment I think very little is as it first appears.

[The Legendary Shark]

Not sure if that's such a good test, "by the way, New Guy, I murdered my entire crew and ran for it - wanna help me escape? You can trust me, honest!"

[blackmocco]

The captains we're familiar with would have put Mudd and Whatsisname on the two-man fighter and stayed behind (except that Whatsisname would have been killed before launching so the captain would have escaped anyway). Also, Lorca killing his entire previous crew and surviving seems unlikely as well. How would an officer who did that remain a captain in Starfleet? That just leaves a bad taste.

We don't know enough details about this story to make a sound judgement.
The fact that Lorca killed the crew was his confession - we don't know that anyone in Starfleet is aware of that detail (or even if it's true. It could quite easily be a detail designed to test the new guy. If he hears that rumour at a later date he'll know the new guy isn't to be trusted).
A captain being off-ship during a dangerous situation doesn't sound too unusual.

At the moment I think very little is as it first appears.

And with the story being stretched over the fifteen episodes, not all that stuff is going to be quickly resolved by the end of the given episode. It's a long game.

[Smith]

"Space: Above and Beyond," wow - there's a blast from the past! I loved that show!

So Im not the only one who remembers that.
Now,I dont presume to know what Star Trek is supposed to be,but wasnt it meant to show a better humanity?So far,Im not seeing that in Discovery.Its oddly too similar to our world.
Again,Im willing to give it a few more episodes,but I cant say Im really optimistic.

[The Legendary Shark]

"Space: Above and Beyond," wow - there's a blast from the past! I loved that show!

So Im not the only one who remembers that.
Now,I dont presume to know what Star Trek is supposed to be,but wasnt it meant to show a better humanity?So far,Im not seeing that in Discovery.Its oddly too similar to our world.
Again,Im willing to give it a few more episodes,but I cant say Im really optimistic.

That's about how I feel about it too.

[blackmocco]

"Space: Above and Beyond," wow - there's a blast from the past! I loved that show!

So Im not the only one who remembers that.
Now,I dont presume to know what Star Trek is supposed to be,but wasnt it meant to show a better humanity?So far,Im not seeing that in Discovery.Its oddly too similar to our world.
Again,Im willing to give it a few more episodes,but I cant say Im really optimistic.

That's about how I feel about it too.

Trek's always been a reflection of when we're living though. I'd rather see a sci-fi show that reflects that and shows us characters who rise above those challenges than one set in a culture I have no way to relate to. If anything, that's what doomed Voyager and Enterprise for me. Everything was too neatly wrapped up. Drama had no real consequences. A culture of people serving together who have risen above arguing with each other? Who can relate to that in 2017? The world's so divided right now, nuance in a conversation is a thing of the past, people are shits to one another and we're all on a knife-edge. TOS and TNG were very idealistic, and I love those ideals (even if I was in a very different headspace and age when I first discovered those shows) but it's unfair to say this show doesn't have them. The challenges it faces may seem harsher to overcome, but most of these characters have a moral compass pointed the right way. Just like out there in the real world.

[JamesC]

Not sure if that's such a good test, "by the way, New Guy, I murdered my entire crew and ran for it - wanna help me escape? You can trust me, honest!"

Well that was just off the top of my head, the point is, don't take everything at face value.

Besides what would the new guy's alternative have been? Stay with the Klingons?

[Smith]

@blackmocco
Rewind that for me-you couldnt relate to people wanting to get back home?
Also,Im not buying the theory it should be realistic because that would be more realistic.

[Professor Bear]

Those two blokes weren't gay.
Remember when Dax kissed her goddang ex wife right there on the frigging screen because they were both in love with each other?  Trek's producers bent over backwards to assure the media that this wasn't a gay kiss Because Sci-Fi Reasons, so two chaps sharing a bathroom is not gay, Discovery, not by Trek standards.
I'm not saying we need a graphic sex scene to dispel any ambiguity - actually, yes.  Yes I am.

Anyway. I might give it one more episode but that's it for me, I'm afraid.

Then I guess we'll see your fishy ass in the Orville thread where - in the interests of consistency - I will probably be discussing Star Trek Discovery.

I have theory why Lorca left Mudd behind: he'd seen TOS and found him a really annoying character and hoped he'd die on the Klingon ship so he wouldn't be in Lorca's show anymore.  I don't blame him as - and you probably have no idea that this is the case - I really fucking hate the Harry Mudd character.