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Author Topic: 2018: forthcoming thrills..  (Read 10511 times)

Frank

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #105 on: 11 July, 2018, 04:01:41 pm »

Steve: It wasn't made clear, but the 'supportive' comment was referring to The Phoenix, rather than 2000ad and/or the forum run under its auspices.

I don't suppose anyone is obliged to be supportive of any comic they don't like, for whatever reason. Certainly not one they believe* was trying to use a character they created in a way that wouldn't benefit them in any way.

The exploitation of work by others without compensation being the reason for the remarks under discussion.


* Rightly or wrongly

Jim_Campbell

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #106 on: 11 July, 2018, 04:09:30 pm »
The exploitation of work by others without compensation being the reason for the remarks under discussion.

I wonder if John Wagner's on a percentage of that colouring book…
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Robin Low

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #107 on: 11 July, 2018, 06:25:42 pm »
Couple of days late to this...

From my perspective, continuing ABC Warriors and Slaine without the unique authorial voice of Pat Mills would be a creatively worthless endeavour, just as continuing Indigo Prime and Devlin Waugh without John Smith is.

I dunno about you, but I think the voice of both Warriors and Slaine has changed quite considerably since they began, not always for the better. On that basis, I think they could stand different writers. I also liked the recent Indigo Prime (including the addition of Revere) and Devlin Waugh.

I'd like to see John Smith back, though. There's no doubt about it: Cinnabar, Killing Time and Cradlegrave are among the very best series we've ever seen in 2000AD.

Regards,

Robin

Frank

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #108 on: 11 July, 2018, 07:59:19 pm »
(T)he voice of both Warriors and Slaine has changed quite considerably since they began, not always for the better. On that basis, I think they could stand different writers. I'd like to see John Smith back, though. There's no doubt about it: Cinnabar, Killing Time and Cradlegrave are among the very best series we've ever seen in 2000AD.

If Tharg had responded to the success of Cinnabar by putting Smith on Rogue, we may never have been blessed with those other strips. Smith's other Rogue Trooper strip, Enfleshings[1], was dismal, which is generally how things go with house characters.[2]

The fact we have to go back 30 years to find a franchise story everyone agrees was any good tells you everything you need to know. I don't have any problem with Tharg giving creators the heave-ho, but trying to franchise their strips is in nobody's best interests[3].


[1] 2000ad Yearbook 1993.

[2] Although volunteering a story written by the best writer in the world as an example of how easy it would be to turn ABC Warriors into a sandbox for creators gave me a laugh. Not sure Alan Moore returns Tharg's calls anymore, the reasons for that include the very issue under discussion here.

[3] Including Tharg's

Jim_Campbell

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #109 on: 11 July, 2018, 08:38:09 pm »
Although volunteering a story written by the best writer in the world as an example of how easy it would be to turn ABC Warriors into a sandbox for creators gave me a laugh.

Pretty sure I didn’t say that. I simply mentioned that it was my favourite ABC Warriors story — there aren’t a lot of non-Mills entries into that canon to choose from, for obvious reasons. Maybe John Smith could have given us a cracking ABC Warriors tale, but we’ll never know.
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Steven Denton

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #110 on: 12 July, 2018, 08:05:21 pm »
I’m slightly torn on this because the idea that franchising strips doesn’t work for 2000ad is pretty shaky. all Dredd world strips are a franchise and that seems to work out pretty well. It’s not that surprising that you have to go back 30 years to find solid gold classics because truely outstanding strips don’t come along all that often. A strips legend grows with time to legendary strips are more or less always going to be from decades past. Aside from Dredd 2000ad hasn’t routinely farmed strips out to replacement/alternative writers so examples are always going to be thin on the ground. Some of the strips that were rebooted in the late 80’s and 90’s were given to terrible writers, Millar and Flisher’s original work was just as balls awful as their work on company IP.

Robohunter I enjoyed originally. Lovely art, entertaining enough scripts, but nothing that really made that big an impression on me. I don’t think of it as a classic, levels of attachment may vary. The Mark Millar reboot is objectively awful (still nice art though) but the Peter Hogan run (although short) was probably my favourite. (The art quality rarely dips in 2000ad does it? That run have some simply stunning artwork) Give a property to a bad writer and you are going to get a bad strip.

So I disagree that ‘franchises’ produce worse strips.

But I don’t really want to see IP flogged to death for decades either. There is something to be said for new ideas and constantly moving forward. Superhero comics are stuck on an infinite loop and it would be a real shame to see that happen to 2000ad. Funny as it would be to see the outrage a new book of Zenith by a new writer I wouldn’t actually be interested in reading it.



« Last Edit: 12 July, 2018, 08:07:24 pm by Steven Denton »

broodblik

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #111 on: 12 July, 2018, 08:41:40 pm »
But I don’t really want to see IP flogged to death for decades either. There is something to be said for new ideas and constantly moving forward. Superhero comics are stuck on an infinite loop and it would be a real shame to see that happen to 2000ad. Funny as it would be to see the outrage a new book of Zenith by a new writer I wouldn’t actually be interested in reading it.

I agree with what you are saying. If Zenith would return the only artist on duty must be Yeowell. I am currently re-reading the new colored versions of Halo Jones. I always wanted this to return. Who would be able to write this and who would be able to give justice to the characters like Gibson ? We can all dream, cant we ?

Woolly

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #112 on: 12 July, 2018, 09:11:07 pm »
But I don’t really want to see IP flogged to death for decades either. There is something to be said for new ideas and constantly moving forward. Superhero comics are stuck on an infinite loop and it would be a real shame to see that happen to 2000ad. Funny as it would be to see the outrage a new book of Zenith by a new writer I wouldn’t actually be interested in reading it.

I agree with what you are saying. If Zenith would return the only artist on duty must be Yeowell. I am currently re-reading the new colored versions of Halo Jones. I always wanted this to return. Who would be able to write this and who would be able to give justice to the characters like Gibson ? We can all dream, cant we ?

Its known that Alan Moore had an outline for the entire Halo Jones saga, Neil Gaiman claims to have listened to this from the horses mouth.
Surely the great bearded one wouldn't have a problem with selling this to Tharg so someone else could pick up the baton so to speak?
Surely this would tempt Ian Gibson back to the fold?

As you said, we can but dream...

Jim_Campbell

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #113 on: 12 July, 2018, 09:17:04 pm »
Surely the great bearded one wouldn't have a problem with selling this to Tharg so someone else could pick up the baton so to speak?

In the past, Moore's basic position in any discussion of 2000AD work has always started with "Give me Halo Jones back." I suspect this is more for devilment on the part of the Bard of Northampton, and is just his way of saying "No, never" but it amuses him to pretend that there are circumstances where he might consider it, but attaches them to a demand he knows will never be accepted.
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sheridan

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #114 on: 12 July, 2018, 09:18:56 pm »
But I don’t really want to see IP flogged to death for decades either. There is something to be said for new ideas and constantly moving forward. Superhero comics are stuck on an infinite loop and it would be a real shame to see that happen to 2000ad. Funny as it would be to see the outrage a new book of Zenith by a new writer I wouldn’t actually be interested in reading it.

I agree with what you are saying. If Zenith would return the only artist on duty must be Yeowell. I am currently re-reading the new colored versions of Halo Jones. I always wanted this to return. Who would be able to write this and who would be able to give justice to the characters like Gibson ? We can all dream, cant we ?

Its known that Alan Moore had an outline for the entire Halo Jones saga, Neil Gaiman claims to have listened to this from the horses mouth.
Surely the great bearded one wouldn't have a problem with selling this to Tharg so someone else could pick up the baton so to speak?
Surely this would tempt Ian Gibson back to the fold?

As you said, we can but dream...


Hah - so funny!

sheridan

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #115 on: 12 July, 2018, 09:21:01 pm »
I sort of would want to see the other six books of Halo (by Moore and Gibson) on the other hand I'm not sure it would live up to expectations.  The three books stand together pretty well, with the last panel of the last book tying in to the first advert and cover.  I wanted to see the first three chapters of Star Wars, until they came out, written and (the first one) directed by the original creator.  Careful what you wish for...

The Monarch

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #116 on: 12 July, 2018, 11:28:54 pm »
isn't alan moore retiring from writing after that last volume of loeg hes doing at the moment

sheridan

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #117 on: 13 July, 2018, 12:18:00 am »
isn't alan moore retiring from writing after that last volume of loeg hes doing at the moment

Didn't he retire about ten years ago?  Before the Black Dossier, the three Nemo books and Jerusalem ;-)

Speaking of which, just read the Nemo books and the (comic pages of) the dossier - great stuff, well worth a read.  When I have slightly more time I may even read the more text-heavy pages...


M.I.K.

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #118 on: 13 July, 2018, 05:13:07 am »
If I remember correctly, Moore said he was pretty much done with comics but didn't rule out the possibility of doing the odd little comicy thing later on.

Dandontdare

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Re: 2018: forthcoming thrills..
« Reply #119 on: 13 July, 2018, 12:09:28 pm »
But I don’t really want to see IP flogged to death for decades either. There is something to be said for new ideas and constantly moving forward. Superhero comics are stuck on an infinite loop and it would be a real shame to see that happen to 2000ad. Funny as it would be to see the outrage a new book of Zenith by a new writer I wouldn’t actually be interested in reading it.

I agree with what you are saying. If Zenith would return the only artist on duty must be Yeowell. I am currently re-reading the new colored versions of Halo Jones. I always wanted this to return. Who would be able to write this and who would be able to give justice to the characters like Gibson ? We can all dream, cant we ?

Its known that Alan Moore had an outline for the entire Halo Jones saga, Neil Gaiman claims to have listened to this from the horses mouth.
Surely the great bearded one wouldn't have a problem with selling this to Tharg so someone else could pick up the baton so to speak?
Surely this would tempt Ian Gibson back to the fold?

As you said, we can but dream...

Ian Gibson disputes this legendary anecdote - he says Moore had a few ideas but certainly didn't have the whole thing worked out. Gibson actually wrote and submitted books 4 and 5 but they were never commissioned. He also has a lot to say about Moore's general writing on HJ - "plot holes you could strain your vegetables through" was a favourite phrase.