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Author Topic: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion  (Read 3941 times)

Keef Monkey

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #30 on: 30 January, 2018, 10:29:15 am »
I don't understand why people who express a dislike for something are then labelled "entitled"

It's not the disliking, it's the sentiment of "deserving" something better, ie: that they were entitled to something better. It's not tricky.

How do you discern between someone wanting something better, and someone thinking they deserved something better?

Or is it simply a way to diminish a group of people and their "wrong" opinions?

Having an opinion and expressing it is absolutely fine, obviously. When people start petitions and throw around death threats demanding that the ending to a videogame be changed, or that a movie be removed from canon, or that sweeping changes are made to appease them because of their own personal opinion - that's the entitlement people are referring to. I work in videogames and see it in comment threads all the time, I used to be excited to see what the fans made of any news but nowadays there isn't a single announcement that can go by without any positive response being drowned out by hateful tantrums from people who think I should be unemployed and my family should die slowly of various diseases, just because the thing they're getting has a chance of not fitting their own very specific wants. It's a real step beyond just having an opinion.

I always think back to the whole Mass Effect 3 thing whenever something like this happens (and it now happens constantly). That feels like a bit of a watershed moment now and I think Bioware handled it the wrong way and set a very poor precedent. It conditioned people to think that their rage had an impact so was justified. It legitimized the kind of behavior we now see every time a choice is made that a group of fans don't like. Plus when you change things to appease a very loud and vocal minority of fans (because even in the case of the Star Wars rage, the box office shows that most people really aren't that upset, even if the noise on the internet says otherwise) then you're compromising the original vision in a way that detracts from it for the people who were happy with it (I liked the original Mass Effect 3 ending a lot more!).

EDIT: That rant wasn't aimed at anyone on the board, just my general feelings about the current state of internet reactions to things!
« Last Edit: 30 January, 2018, 10:30:47 am by Keef Monkey »

Mardroid

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #31 on: 30 January, 2018, 10:36:55 am »
4/5 for me. I liked how they subverted certain tropes, but I think they might have done it too much. Overall, I thought it a triumph, however. Luke might not have turned out quite how I’d have imagined, yet I didn’t find his choices unbelievable.

In the end, I think he was far from a failure, and left the film on a high note.

SIP

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #32 on: 30 January, 2018, 10:40:11 am »
I effectively used the term "I deserved better" in one of my grumbles......but I didn't really intend it in that way, I was just trying to articulate that I was very disappointed in the direction that the film took and chose my wording poorly.

Can’t say fairer than that. My apologies, Simon.

It's all good Jim. Sometimes I get a bit carried away in my "rants"!  I need to proof read a little more I think.....it did sound self entitled.
« Last Edit: 30 January, 2018, 10:42:49 am by SIP »

TordelBack

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #33 on: 30 January, 2018, 10:43:42 am »
I make it a rule never to watch a YouTube video with a picture of an angry presenter as the screen grab. Or that is titled "What went wrong with...". Or " xxx fail!".

And you are wise to do so.  I almost can't believe some of the rhetoric, which even when you filter out the ones that include the phrases "SJWs ruined..." and "that Asian bitch" (which, lets face it, are not actually about Star Wars at all) is almost baffling in its concerns.  The ones that truly amaze are the ones demanding George Lucas' return to write, direct and produce everything. As a long time-defender of Lucas, who has spent the last 20 years listening to unending hate and vitriol often involving the phrases "raped my childhood" and "money-grabbing hack", I just can't get over this particular change in the weather. Lucas did great work, along with Henson he has been one of the most profound cultural influences in my life.  Now other people are doing new work, and I wish them well.  Do these have be exclusive positions?

Then there's the more recent shift from decrying Disney's excision of the old EU material, to condemning any apparent reference to them.  The same folk that were appalled to learn that Dark Empire and the Thrawn Trilogy no longer happened ( ::) ) are aghast that Luke could be temporarily tempted by the Dark Side, or that his old lightsabre was found, or that he might learn new Force powers, or develop a more nuanced view of the Jedi way, or that he might fail in teaching Han and Leia's son so that the boy was lured away by a Dark Side mentor and allied himself with a new military movement that saw the Republic as weak and corrupt and vowed to bring order, and then went on to murder a family member both he and Luke loved... 

You'd almost think that people just like to get angry about whatever is in front of them in the hope it'll attract a few clicks.

I effectively used the term "I deserved better" in one of my grumbles......but I didn't really intend it in that way, I was just trying to articulate that I was very disappointed in the direction that the film took and chose my wording poorly.

Can’t say fairer than that. My apologies, Simon.

It's all good Jim. Sometimes I get a bit carried away in my "rants"!  I need to proof read a little more I think.....it did sound self entitled.

You two just don't fit into this modern world at all, do you?   ;)
« Last Edit: 30 January, 2018, 10:48:58 am by TordelBack »

James Stacey

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #34 on: 30 January, 2018, 10:44:19 am »
4 out of 5. It has its faults and a couple of plot points that needed a lot of handwaving to accept but it was a lot of fun, a breath of fresh air and a great send off for an established character.

Professor Bear

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #35 on: 30 January, 2018, 12:40:59 pm »
And you are wise to do so.  I almost can't believe some of the rhetoric, which even when you filter out the ones that include the phrases "SJWs ruined..." and "that Asian bitch" (which, lets face it, are not actually about Star Wars at all) is almost baffling in its concerns.

I watched a few (postitive) feminist takes on TLJ and somehow the Youtube algorithm still decided to stuff the recommendations column with Diversity And Comics* videos - Youtube is deliberately creating a hostile atmosphere in the discussion just like they deliberately engineered comments sections full of unashamed racists to encourage repeat pageviews and higher advertising rates.
There have always been entitled fans, but we're at the first point in history where their man-baby antics can be successfully monetized, and this is why we're seeing more of them, not because they've somehow successfully organised and become a social movement.  See also: Twitter and Nazis.



* presumably named after the two things the presenters hate most.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #36 on: 30 January, 2018, 01:02:26 pm »
You two just don't fit into this modern world at all, do you?   ;)

Fuck off, you unreasonably reasonable bastard!
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SmallBlueThing(Reborn)

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #37 on: 30 January, 2018, 03:51:21 pm »
4/5 for me. Sufficiently different from other ones to be fresh, and I enjoyed all the ways and lengths they went to in their attempt to pull the rug out from under viewers' expectations.
I'm liking this sequel trilogy a lot. And much more importantly, my kids love it.
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Proudhuff

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #38 on: 30 January, 2018, 04:04:22 pm »
You two just don't fit into this modern world at all, do you?   ;)

Fuck off, you unreasonably reasonable bastard!

That's more like it... ;)
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DrRocka

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #39 on: 30 January, 2018, 04:04:40 pm »
That is the great thing about it, SBT. I thought it was bloody awful, but both my kids and my Dad, if they could vote here, would be giving it 5. They LOVED it.
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Mattofthespurs

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #40 on: 30 January, 2018, 04:42:17 pm »
It's a Star Wars film. It doesn't matter much really.

It does to some people.

What do you care?

Eric Plumrose

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #41 on: 30 January, 2018, 06:21:29 pm »
Absolute dross. Gets a '1' but only because Luke doesn't say "It's engaged!" when Rey bangs on his door the first time he locks himself away.
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The Enigmatic Dr X

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #42 on: 30 January, 2018, 06:53:28 pm »
It falls into a black hole sucking all information into a void.

0/5
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blackmocco

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #43 on: 30 January, 2018, 09:03:34 pm »
4/5. Something new and unexpected after TFA. The fact it's divided fans so much only proves it took some chances.
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Theblazeuk

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Re: The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion
« Reply #44 on: 30 January, 2018, 09:47:32 pm »
3/5

Enjoyable but messy and flawed. Baffled at the idea that its 'new/done something different/its own thing/etc' as the main narrative was a long rehash of bits of Empire with a bit of RoTJ thrown in. Slightly more varied than TFA is all I could say on that score. (I enjoyed both enough! This one, less so though.)