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Author Topic: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age  (Read 8447 times)

IndigoPrime

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #165 on: 13 March, 2018, 11:57:32 am »
but comics stand or fall on their artwork I reckon
I've never really thought that. The only time I have issues with artwork is if the storytelling is poor. Even if the art is quite ropey, as long as I can tell what's going on, I'm happy – IF the script is good. Junker is a case in point for the reverse – loads of rather lovely Ridgeway art, but a script that was turgid. But, yeah, I can see that if artwork was your priority in the objectively shit script period of 2000 AD, you probably weren't quite so fussed.

sheridan

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #166 on: 14 March, 2018, 10:06:59 pm »
but comics stand or fall on their artwork I reckon
I've never really thought that. The only time I have issues with artwork is if the storytelling is poor. Even if the art is quite ropey, as long as I can tell what's going on, I'm happy – IF the script is good. Junker is a case in point for the reverse – loads of rather lovely Ridgeway art, but a script that was turgid. But, yeah, I can see that if artwork was your priority in the objectively shit script period of 2000 AD, you probably weren't quite so fussed.

Bad art can certainly obscure good scripting (and I'm not even talking about storytelling, I'm talking ugly art) - there's been a few stories over the years where I wish it could be redrawn by a more suited artist.  The time around the dark period was marked for me by some excellent artists learning their craft (to be kind).  I do really mean that - some of my favourite artists now did a bit of a hatchet job on some great stories while they were coming up to speed in the time after the US brain drain.

Goosegash

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #167 on: 23 March, 2018, 07:07:00 pm »
I agree that nothing in the Prog is as bad as 2000 AD's worst, but ABC Warriors is now skirting with mediocrity alarmingly regularly. Perhaps scheduling is part of the problem – running two bursts of Mills with crossover. I dunno. I'm just utterly bored of the treadmill/repeating background of ABC Warriors, and that's a strip that shouldn't be boring. By contrast, Savage has some massive plot holes and resolution issues, but is at least readable.

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I think everyone involved knew those strips were shit.
It's hard to know what everyone at the time thought of specific strips. We do get interviews where people talk in hindsight about their time (Ennis being notably candid about his 2000 AD work, noting he was too young to do the likes of Dredd justice), but it would be interesting to somehow be a fly on the wall back then.

Certainly, I get the feeling no-one much cared about the comic's history. There's a feeling of "I can do better than what went before" by tearing down the comic's history. And although it's very clear that some things look better in scripts than in their final comic book form, the sheer amount of crap during the comic's nadir suggested that either standards were low, or there just wasn't enough material coming in to fill the pages.


Spot on - it was an unfortunate toxic combination of complacent editorship(*coughBurtonMacKenzie*) in the post-McManus era combined with certain writers (*coughMorrisonMillar*)who thought they were too good for some dumb kids comic and just took the piss.

I remember we had a thread years ago where we tried to determine what was the absolute worst Prog, and the winner was 827 by some margin. Truly wretched.

Magnetica

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #168 on: 23 March, 2018, 07:54:30 pm »
Not a Prog I recall, but according to Barney it has two strips by Ron Smith and one by Brett Ewins. Surely something of merit there?

One of the Ron Smith stories was Robo Hunter. I don’t recall him ever doing one of those. But it was the Mark Millar version and there is no way I have ever re-read any of those, so given it was 25 years ago I must have forgotten.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #169 on: 24 March, 2018, 12:19:09 pm »
If you're referring to my post, that was all about 883:

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Still, it couldn't get worse… expect it did. 883: The execrable and wantonly sexist Babe Race 2000 (Millar); The Clown Book 2 (two books too many); Dredd in Manchu Candidate (which, fortunately, didn't go any further); Grudgefather; Millar Robo-Hunter. That's zero out of five for me.

There's some reasonable art in that lot, but the scripts are all dreadful.

As for 827, I'd have to re-read it, but it merely seems mediocre. (I never cared much for Bradley – although it was mostly OK. I don't recall the Dredd or Future Shock at all. Millar Robo-Hunter was always awful. Kelly was forgettable but not outright unreadable.)

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #170 on: 24 March, 2018, 12:53:33 pm »
I rather thought we’d agreed it was 883…? A prog about which literally the only positive thing you can say is “Nice art on some of those strips…”

Edit: that link doesn’t do what it’s supposed to. No idea why. Sorry!
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TordelBack

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #171 on: 24 March, 2018, 12:56:19 pm »
Edit: that link doesn’t do what it’s supposed to. No idea why. Sorry!

No need for apologies - it was a lucky escape for us.

Proudhuff

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #172 on: 28 March, 2018, 12:18:58 pm »
The New Dark Age is now closed  :thumbsup:
I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!

Colin YNWA

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #173 on: 28 March, 2018, 12:58:06 pm »
The New Dark Age is now closed  :thumbsup:

Before it even opened!

Proudhuff

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #174 on: 28 March, 2018, 02:46:13 pm »
I'd like to direct the learned gentleman to the previous 11 pages :-X
I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!

Richard

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #175 on: 28 March, 2018, 11:54:43 pm »
The previous 11 pages were wrong.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #176 on: 01 April, 2018, 07:16:02 pm »
I've got to admit, my enthusiasm for the prog was seriously waning, to the point where I think I was just continuing to buy it for nostalgic reasons.  So I was missing more and more weeks, thinking I'd catch up sometime, till I just stopped.

But I've bought the jumping-on prog and its follow-up, and I must say things are looking up.  Long may it last.  Matt Smith is a fine editor, and I have faith he can restore the prog.
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Taryn Tailz

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #177 on: 01 April, 2018, 07:28:49 pm »
Yeah, the previous line-up almost drove me away from the prog, but the latest batch sees the thrill power firing on all cylinders once again.

Prodigal2

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #178 on: 12 April, 2018, 10:23:26 am »
I've started buying again as well as well.

TordelBack

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Re: Everything comes back after 20 years: The Prog's New Dark Age
« Reply #179 on: 12 April, 2018, 11:31:21 am »
I've started buying again as well as well.

Prodigal3?