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Author Topic: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...  (Read 2969 times)

K2

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #15 on: 18 February, 2018, 04:34:15 pm »
It's still pretty loose - even with the gaps filled in by Origins. There are some bits retconned or at least omitted by Origins (Fargo's sister Arden Polders from the Cal Files story doesn't get a mention)

Booth's tenure involves a bit of expansionism, invading for resources etc. which occurs after the establishment of the Street Judges.

The resource issue could be a particular piece, and Booth relied on mechanisation in his attempts to hold on to power (although this is some established pre-origins and isn't really addressed that much in it)

Automation and decimation of jobs could be another factor you might like to look at - that's definitely something in Dredd's world.

Thanks again Steve!  I'll think about all of that.

K2

K2

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #16 on: 18 February, 2018, 04:35:32 pm »
No worries.  No offence to Richard but I just knew someone would come along to the thread to warn you off 'our' territory.

I think most posters will agree that you're welcome in the forum and that it's great to see a new Dredd fan taking an interest.

Thanks again for the support!

K2

Richard

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #17 on: 18 February, 2018, 04:55:50 pm »
No offense taken. To be clear, I have no intention in warning newcomers off “our” territory, and I’d ordinarily be happy to educate and encourage them. But I just don’t see the point of someone setting out to write a story which deliberately contradicts Origins even though it’s about the main character from Origins and all the events shown in that story. Fans of Judge Dredd won’t want to read it, because John Wagner’s story is the definitive “canon.” (Wagner is the writer who created Judge Dredd and who had written the majority of the most important stories over the last 40 years.) If you want people to read it, then read Origins and then fit your story around what has already been established instead. Or invent your own universe and protagonist, and then people won’t begin the story with their own preconceptions about what it should be like.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #18 on: 18 February, 2018, 04:57:09 pm »
Thanks for responding.  What I have found regarding this is as follows (quoted from other sites)
Which is all fine, but that's people imprinting their own take on to something. Perhaps you should read the source material yourself, rather than just researching via other people's quotes. For what it's worth, the entire exchange is:


Fargo: I'd tried to deny it. But I didn't believe myself anymore… What we did – wrong. Too far. Went too far.
Dredd: Booth had to go. You did what had to be done.
Fargo: It was never meant to… be forever, Joe. We created a monster. We. Us. We're the monster. We got greedy – wanted everything – so we killed the dream, Joe. We killed America! I'm asking you… begging you – my flesh, my blood… it's not too late! Fix it! You – you and Rico – you can do it.


Take that as you will. It doesn't necessarily mean the judges in and of themselves are wrong, but perhaps the lack of oversight and the judges taking over everything. It's one thing for them to be a city-based 'extreme' judicial force. It's another to take over all forms of government. But also, Fargo at that point is deteriorating fast and likely has no context of the current situation of Mega-City One (and, for that matter, the USA as a whole).


K2

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #20 on: 18 February, 2018, 05:18:46 pm »
Thanks for responding.  What I have found regarding this is as follows (quoted from other sites)
Which is all fine, but that's people imprinting their own take on to something. Perhaps you should read the source material yourself, rather than just researching via other people's quotes. For what it's worth, the entire exchange is:


Fargo: I'd tried to deny it. But I didn't believe myself anymore… What we did – wrong. Too far. Went too far.
Dredd: Booth had to go. You did what had to be done.
Fargo: It was never meant to… be forever, Joe. We created a monster. We. Us. We're the monster. We got greedy – wanted everything – so we killed the dream, Joe. We killed America! I'm asking you… begging you – my flesh, my blood… it's not too late! Fix it! You – you and Rico – you can do it.


Take that as you will. It doesn't necessarily mean the judges in and of themselves are wrong, but perhaps the lack of oversight and the judges taking over everything. It's one thing for them to be a city-based 'extreme' judicial force. It's another to take over all forms of government. But also, Fargo at that point is deteriorating fast and likely has no context of the current situation of Mega-City One (and, for that matter, the USA as a whole).

Thank you so very much for that!

It actually fits perfectly, and I do mean perfectly with the 2029 plot I'm working on.  In the end I suppose that is the point.  I have no intention nor desire to change anything from 2029 on.  I'm simply trying to establish a scenario that gives some reasonable and plausible background as to why post-2029, Fargo does what he does.

JFTR, current events help support the story and 2020 crisis more than I could have ever dreamed up.  The U.S. President erased from history (in the story) and who shall not be named the instigator only referred to by all as "The Mad Clown."

Thanks so much once again, that is a nice chunk of what I needed and works out marvelously.

K2

K2

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #21 on: 18 February, 2018, 05:20:43 pm »
No offense taken. To be clear, I have no intention in warning newcomers off “our” territory, and I’d ordinarily be happy to educate and encourage them. But I just don’t see the point of someone setting out to write a story which deliberately contradicts Origins even though it’s about the main character from Origins and all the events shown in that story. Fans of Judge Dredd won’t want to read it, because John Wagner’s story is the definitive “canon.” (Wagner is the writer who created Judge Dredd and who had written the majority of the most important stories over the last 40 years.) If you want people to read it, then read Origins and then fit your story around what has already been established instead. Or invent your own universe and protagonist, and then people won’t begin the story with their own preconceptions about what it should be like.
https://www.amazon.com/Judge-Dredd-Origins-John-Wagner/dp/1781080992/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518973237&sr=8-1&keywords=Dredd+Origins

Ditto, no offense taken, and thank you for the link!

K2

K2

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #22 on: 19 February, 2018, 02:10:56 am »
Throughout this thread and in other conversations you all have been extremely helpful and I sincerely thank you all.

Might anyone have anything they can share on Eustace Fargo's policy of celibacy for Street Judges, as to why he enacted it, or was it not detailed in the series?

Thanks again!

K2

JOE SOAP

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #23 on: 19 February, 2018, 02:32:27 am »
Might anyone have anything they can share on Eustace Fargo's policy of celibacy for Street Judges, as to why he enacted it, or was it not detailed in the series?

Not much in any comic text other than the merest hint of Fargo’s conservative -possibly religious though not stressed- family background in Origins and the implied idea of too many close emotional ties being a hinderance, distraction or liability to a Judge’s vocation.

It’s the kind of thing that if there’s an attempt to explain the why or how of it, draws too much attention to the idea itself and the complexities of trying to justify it, although the consequences of breaking the celibacy law for Judges has been played out several times in stories.

« Last Edit: 19 February, 2018, 02:40:01 am by JOE SOAP »

K2

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #24 on: 19 February, 2018, 03:03:38 am »
Thanks Joe Soap!

If you have an opportunity, could you share an example of those formal consequences?  I'm familiar from web-sources with the result of Fargo's indiscretion (his attempted suicide, etc.), yet I'm curious as to what would be the formal punishment.

Thanks for your help!

K2

JOE SOAP

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #25 on: 19 February, 2018, 03:18:04 am »
If you have an opportunity, could you share an example of those formal consequences?  I'm familiar from web-sources with the result of Fargo's indiscretion (his attempted suicide, etc.), yet I'm curious as to what would be the formal punishment.

Expulsion from the Justice Dept. and 20 years hard labour working the mines at the penal colony on Titan -Saturn’s moon- but sentences have been less or bargained for.

K2

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #26 on: 19 February, 2018, 03:35:08 am »
Thanks again Joe Soap for the quick and precise reply!

K2

Richard

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #27 on: 19 February, 2018, 09:58:49 am »
Nobody got 20 years for breaking the celibacy rule. You just get fired. But Judge Sladek got 20 years for murdering someone who was blackmailing him over his affair.

TordelBack

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #28 on: 19 February, 2018, 10:53:51 am »
Nobody got 20 years for breaking the celibacy rule. You just get fired.

Or not even that: sometimes just a black mark on the record and a transfer away from temptation, occasionally demoted from a Senior/Chief role for repeat offences, or busted down to an Auxiliary if intransigent (i.e unwilling to give up the relationship - Auxiliaries don't have the celibacy restriction, and often have kids/normal lives etc.).  As Richard says, the apparently harsh penalties for extra-judicial nookie actually stem from dereliction of duty due to time taken by the affair, or criminal actions taken covering it up/supporting a family, rather than the over-enthusiastic use of the daystick per se.
« Last Edit: 19 February, 2018, 10:56:36 am by TordelBack »

Steve Green

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Re: Looking for Pre-Street Judge Info...
« Reply #29 on: 19 February, 2018, 10:56:55 am »
Generally it's been fleshed out from the symbolic OTT concept of the original. (Same with the long walk)

Minor offences can lead to being shifted to crappier duties, taken off the streets etc. or pyschological treatment.

Both the Pit and Sector House are good examples of the later Dredd storylines and how they treat offences within the Judges.