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Author Topic: Star Wars Episode IX  (Read 24206 times)

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #360 on: 25 September, 2019, 10:20:05 pm »
The bombers aren't just unprecedentedly slow, they also carry a truly unprecedented payload: enough for just one to take out the most powerful non-HQ capital ship with a blunt frontal attack. Their weakness and strength are connected, albeit in a space fantasy logic way. From a filmmaking perspective the echo large WWII bombers on their lumbering approach, which is very much an extension of the Lucas approach to space combat.

I'd suggest that once the ridiculous numbers of bombs are armed the shIps are very vulnerable (hence the necessity of Poe taking out the dreadnaught's dorsal point defence) and rely on overlapping fields of fire and escort inteceptors to protect from fighters. Note that the.bombers appear out of nowhere as soon as Poe gives the all-clear, so they must have been moving pretty fast in open space or atmosphere before they started their attack runs.

They have to manoeuvre through and within the dreadnaught's shield envelope, which requires a low relative velocity (see Clone Wars and maybe TPM) with the stationary vessel, and judging from ANH ("we're passng through the magnetic field", shudder, shake) which may interact dangerously with the bombs.

It's a different approach to precision snub fighters: They're one-shot glass cannons, and they work.
« Last Edit: 25 September, 2019, 10:26:02 pm by TordelBack »

Professor Bear

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #361 on: 25 September, 2019, 10:40:01 pm »
I can't help but feel we might be coming at the question "why does the Rebel Alliance have bombers?" in the wrong spirit.
Less "how do they work?" and more "why would they use imprecise high-collateral weapons at all?"

Frank

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #362 on: 25 September, 2019, 10:42:12 pm »
I can't help but feel we might be coming at the question "why does the Rebel Alliance have bombers?" in the wrong spirit.
Less "how do they work?" and more "why would they use imprecise high-collateral weapons at all?"

The Empire blocked up all their small exhaust ports.



Professor Bear

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #363 on: 25 September, 2019, 11:13:49 pm »
That's what an all-meat diet does to you.

JOE SOAP

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #364 on: 26 September, 2019, 03:12:04 am »
'Star Wars' Shocker: Marvel's Kevin Feige Developing New Movie for Disney

Lucasfilm's Kathleen Kennedy "is pursuing a new era in 'Star Wars' storytelling, and knowing what a die-hard fan Kevin is, it made sense for these two extraordinary producers to work on a 'Star Wars' film together," Walt Disney Studios co-chairman Alan Horn tells The Hollywood Reporter.

Tiplodocus

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #365 on: 26 September, 2019, 08:50:53 am »
"The bombers don't make sense!"

And I don't get that argument.

AT-AT Walkers make no sense. Lightsabres make no sense. Capital ships make no sense. Death Stars make no sense. The small arms make no sense. Nothing in Star Wars universe makes much sense if you give it more scrutiny than the story needs you to.

But AT-ATs especially make no sense. But they look cool as, obey the imaginary rules the filmmakers set out for them,  and serve the thematic storytelling of the scenes they first appear in. As do the Bombers.

My question becomes "Why is that no longer enough for movie audiences?".
« Last Edit: 26 September, 2019, 08:54:31 am by Tiplodocus »
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Link Prime

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #366 on: 26 September, 2019, 09:31:16 am »
TLJ remains one of the worst films I've ever seen.... Were it not that those of you praising it have previously displayed more than a modicum of taste, I'd regard you all as quite, quite mad.

This in itself is quite wonderful though - all here share at least one long-term SF interest, and probably at one time an interest in SW as well, but as a group we seem about evenly split on whether we really love, utterly hate or couldn't care less about TLJ. It's an interesting dynamic, and certainly seems to contradict the popular assertion that this is just bland corporate shovelware.

Yes.
Although, I find it no coincidence that our side are the more handsome and charismatic forum members.

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #367 on: 26 September, 2019, 09:32:13 am »
Somewhere along the road people mistook SW for hard SF, instead of fairytales draped in white plastoid-composite armour rather than platemail. Generally this happened when teenagers and adults decided it wasn't cool to like fairytales, and Lucasfilm licensing were happy to profit from this by supplying endless pseudo-technical books attempting to rationalise how this stuff works, and games that recast it all as a balanced military strategy game (See also the insistence that US military organisational and rank structure be accurately represented in StarTrek and SW). Sadly this coincided with Internet culture, where picking holes and sneering is 90% of what we do.

Incidentally the bomber sequence is high up in my ranking of favourite SW scenes ever. Gripping, heroic, well-paced, lushly rendered, quixotic. The Dambusters in 5 minutes. I lurve it I do.
« Last Edit: 26 September, 2019, 09:37:49 am by TordelBack »

Keef Monkey

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #368 on: 26 September, 2019, 04:29:22 pm »
Incidentally the bomber sequence is high up in my ranking of favourite SW scenes ever. Gripping, heroic, well-paced, lushly rendered, quixotic. The Dambusters in 5 minutes. I lurve it I do.

It really is brilliant. I've got a real itch to rewatch everything (even the prequels!) because working through Clone Wars is giving me a real Star Wars tooth just now. Playing through Republic Commando as well, which I've never played before and is surprisingly good shooty Star Wars action. I just want Star Wars in my veins right now seemingly.

Tiplodocus

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #369 on: 26 September, 2019, 07:44:43 pm »
Love the bomber sequence too. Particularly "ten bloody minutes ago". Not the space battle I was expecting.it was better.

It put me in mind of the simarly awesome opening to Star Trek reboot which had everything in that beautifully rendered first ten minutes that you'd have to have been Vulcan not to have a lump in your throat. Born on a battlefield, indeed.
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Matty_e

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #370 on: 27 September, 2019, 02:23:39 pm »
It dawned on me that the biggest criticism of Force Awakens and Last Jedi was that it robbed us of the opportunity of seeing the three leads together.

I suspect JJ will rectify it with a final Force Ghost scene where they ALL appear as force ghosts including Han. And this will be explained by Jedi/Sith being transcended etc.

That's my guess...

radiator

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #371 on: 27 September, 2019, 06:45:49 pm »
Quote
It dawned on me that the biggest criticism of Force Awakens and Last Jedi was that it robbed us of the opportunity of seeing the three leads together.

Yeah. I'm firmly of the opinion that basing the new trilogy around the old cast of characters would have been a mistake, but not having Luke and Han share a single scene together is a massive bummer, and a real headscratcher of a missed opportunity.

It seems like a lot of the hate towards Last Jedi is a kind of an emotional kneejerk revulsion to 'what they did to Luke/Han', or that the new trilogy essentially makes their accomplishments in the OT null and void. I don't really subscribe to this - anyone who knows anything about storytelling recognises that this is a prerequisite of continuing the saga. The Empire needs to come back. Luke needs to be taken out of the picture somehow. Having to (largely) maintain the status quo of the ending of Return of the Jedi - the heroes triumphant, the empire defeated - is why the old Expanded Universe stuff plateaued so fast.

It's the execution of the new films that (imo) stinks - I just don't think the new films are much cop when all is said and done. Certainly not strong enough to really enthrall a new generation in the same way the originals did. The link someone posted about how rushed the production of TFA was doesn't surprise me at all - it's really evident in the script.

As for Last Jedi, I consider it as a swing and a miss. I totally get what Rian Johnson was going for, I admire that he wanted to subvert expectations and do the unexpected.... I just thought the execution of the film itself was a bit of a disaster. My first review of the film walking out of the cinema was that it was 'a dog's dinner' and I still stand by that assessment.

Any lingering curiosity I might have had about ep9 went out the window when they announced that they were bringing back the Emperor. If that's not an admission that they are out of ideas I don't know what is.

The Mandalorian looks cool, though.

radiator

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #372 on: 27 September, 2019, 07:40:35 pm »
Quote
Last Jedi was for me the most genuinely Star-Warsy Star Wars since Return of the Jedi, Rogue One the least, despite all the accurate dressing (although I still enjoyed it).

Depends what you define as Star Warsyness.

For me they were both quite un Star Wars, but for very different reasons.

I feel like Star Wars movies have a very established visual language which TLJ really went out of its way to break, not least with the inclusion of things like multiple flashbacks, slo-mo, extended scenes solely featuring bit-part/non speaking characters, weird meta humour and overly fancy editing tricks. It didn't feel like a Star Wars movie to me, but I understand that's very subjective.

TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #373 on: 28 September, 2019, 11:24:23 am »
Extended scenes featuring bit part/non-speaking characters? Racking my feeble brain, but not coming up with anything... and certainly nothing that goes further than R2 trundling through the desert, the expanded musical sequence in Jabba's palace, the battle of Geonosis, Order 66, or most of the Ewok battle.

I do agree about flashbacks, that was very odd for SW, but given the Forcey subject matter not too far removed from Anakin's visions in RotS or Rey's in TFA. Also, very important.

My main thought on the State of SW this morning was my immediate reaction to the announcement that Deborah Chow will direct the Kenobi TV series, which was "they're screwed". What an awful situation where my instant response was to envisage the new deluge of whining and negativity I was going to be exposed to.

Professor Bear

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX
« Reply #374 on: 28 September, 2019, 01:21:11 pm »
"Terrible what those trolls are doing - when I sign up for Disney Plus, that'll show them!"