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Author Topic: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion  (Read 10539 times)

Leigh S

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #105 on: 14 October, 2018, 08:35:15 pm »
Plus points, it wasn't about the end of the world, all the acting bar Ryan, who drains the life out of every line he delivers, great old school but updated theme tune and old school but updated time tunnel opening credits

minus points for the talky cloth scene - what was that all about?

Is Rosa Parks too soon / important to throw into Dr Who? I guess we will find out next week!

BPP

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #106 on: 15 October, 2018, 01:09:27 am »

minus points for the talky cloth scene - what was that all about?


Appealing to Harry Potter fans I imagine.

It’s a bit like season 1 & 2 of capaldi - some great ideas with a ton of terrible ones.

I’m loathed to be negative on the first female doctor but it really doesn’t work so far - her voice is wrong, the character has no presence (that looking up at the guy arguing shot was terrible - reinforced she has no gravitas) and the outfit is Rainbow-gone-wrong. At least the assistants are an upgrade on George Zippy and Bungle. And yes I hated Tennants mannerisms and voice ticks too and largely switched off in his tenure. Hopefully by 4-5 epsoides in she gets a bit of boosh about her and they start to learn to frame a petite female vs big gruff men / aliens a tad more convincingly. I almost feel bad about saying this as I’m sure twitter is awash with assholes voicing the same. All I can say is I’m absolutely fine with a female doctor but so far this isn’t hitting the mark.

Sadly so much of the script made zero sense - the crap aim sniper bots, the fire that dosent burn 2 inches out of its visible range, the fact scientists decide to write a short message on the floor as a large mural, Ryan’s wtf gun run moment, the Harry Potter cloths, the teleporting of everyone and everything except the doctor and the assistants..The long speech on family and unity when none of these characters have earned the right to bore on for so long yet.. ..Which was all a shame as the visuals and audio at times were great.

Maybe I’d just been spoilt as I’d just read three progs before, always a hard act to follow.
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JamesC

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #107 on: 15 October, 2018, 10:33:22 am »
I think you're being a bit harsh. There were certainly some minor niggles but slightly rubbish robots and wonky science shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of Dr Who of all things.
As for the voice thing - I just don't get it. She sounds typical of a woman from the north of England - I wouldn't say her voice is particualrly shrill or anything.
The 'physical presence' thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I've never thought of the Doctor as being physically imposing and this episode went to lengths to emphasise the Doctor's 'brains over brawn' philosophy. Gravtias doesn't necessarily come from an imposing physical form either.   

Dandontdare

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #108 on: 15 October, 2018, 10:39:19 am »
I'm hoping it gets better, but the second episode was very disappointing. They said they were moving away from over-complicated stories and long series-arcs to simpler standalone stories, but this was just pants.

The villain could have come from a pantomime (I'm surprised he didn't actually twirl his moustache) - what was his story, why did the Doctor simply let him get away with it? The storytelling was abysmal - after the initial set-up, she literally read most of the exposition off the scenery. Then there were the  floating hankies - not a bad monster in itself - delivering the first of what will obviously be a series of cryptic predictions leading to the series finale. There was some linking rationale behind all the 'silence will fall' hints previously, but I find it implausible that the remnants of a long-abandoned biological weapon would have mysterious insights into the Doctor's situation.

All of these companions means much more screen time devoted to relationship chit-chat rather than action and storytelling, so when the plot does need to be advanced, it is done in obvious and clunky ways (Oh look, those dead scientists have written out all this explanatory basil on the floor. How convenient)

I've not given up hope, and even when it's a bit rubbish, Doctor Who is still fun, but I'm having serious misgivings about this season.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #109 on: 15 October, 2018, 10:46:25 am »
Well, I liked it. Nothing spectacular, but it feels fresh and fun in a way that most of the Moffat era didn't. The new theme tune is respectful to the original, spooky, and weird. The incidental music is subtle and smart, and I no longer need subtitles to watch the show. Visually, it looks pretty great, and I thought the new TARDIS interior looked suitably alien.

The story was a bit clunky at times, as was the dialogue. It was a bit too A-to-B, but it didn't seem any worse than the bulk of other Doctor Who I've seen, which across classic and new eras suffered from similar issues. As for Whittaker, I think she's doing fine. Her voice is… her voice. I think it's fine. As for her height, perhaps we've just got used to extremely tall Doctors, but (and, yes, I did some Googling) it appears the current one is 1cm shorter than Sylvester McCoy and only 6–7cm shorter than McGann, Troughton and Hartnell.

So, yeah, I'm with JamesC block!

TordelBack

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #110 on: 15 October, 2018, 10:50:26 am »
The odd nature of the multiple threats this week is because this is a race course - the route is specifically designed to include leftover obstacles from a devastated Stenza weapons design/testing ground. Hence shoddy robots,  gas fields and psychic dish cloths. 

There's actually been a pleasingly practical feel to the problems and problem-solving, with companions getting stuck into mechanical repairs and jury-rigging rather than the Doctor just twiddling her rather suggestively-shaped sonic penknife and fixing everything remotely.

I did enjoy the moment where it was clear that somebody at a script meeting realised that it was usually the Tardis that supposedly did the magic translating. FWIW I would have preferred the Tardis to remain elusive for a few episodes longer, with the gang hitchhiking around trying to find it or get back to Earth someone other way.

BTW I think the Doctor is doing just fine at having a presence.

BPP

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #111 on: 15 October, 2018, 11:05:48 am »
I think you're being a bit harsh. There were certainly some minor niggles but slightly rubbish robots and wonky science shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of Dr Who of all things.
As for the voice thing - I just don't get it. She sounds typical of a woman from the north of England - I wouldn't say her voice is particualrly shrill or anything.
The 'physical presence' thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I've never thought of the Doctor as being physically imposing and this episode went to lengths to emphasise the Doctor's 'brains over brawn' philosophy. Gravtias doesn't necessarily come from an imposing physical form either.   

There are many accents to the north and many tonal ranges amongst them. To suggest that her Jane Horrocks is standard is patent nonsense. Her voice is very high register and not one that denotes stature.

The doctors are often physically imposing - probably one of the reasons Sylvester McCoy had such a tough time is that the four doctors before him were all tall and dynamic. Capaldi did look quite frail in comparison to the standard of doctor in the reboot - all tall - but had some height and manic intensity to him. But so far when I see this doctor try and take charge - such as in the failing spaceship this week - I see no reason why the pilots would listen to her. She’s not commanding the scene. And when confronting him on the planet her craning her neck up to argue with him was seriously poor staging. She needs to command a room and stay away from ‘fronting’ up to people much bigger than her. Like it or not there is a different dynamic at play due to her stature and they need to avoid making her look like ‘ girl popping off and invading space’ when she confronts people. From a practical point of view nobody (sober) goes up close against people with 8-10 inches on them - short men, short ladies don’t. Your central nervous system knows not to. Writing her in without regard to her stature is doing her a disservice. Especially as she wasn’t facing down some existential threat (where display could be justified) but simply having a bit of a row.

If I'd known it was harmless I would have killed it myself.

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BPP

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #112 on: 15 October, 2018, 11:12:34 am »

There's actually been a pleasingly practical feel to the problems and problem-solving, with companions getting stuck into mechanical repairs and jury-rigging rather than the Doctor just twiddling her rather suggestively-shaped sonic penknife and fixing everything remotely.

Thought she did a ton with it - used it on the space ships, used it on the hologram, used it on the robots for the EMP, used it to open locked doors. Indeed way too much. Especially the EMP bomb because that’s all robot foes now defeated here on in.
If I'd known it was harmless I would have killed it myself.

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TordelBack

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #113 on: 15 October, 2018, 11:19:45 am »
All robot foes with that same power configuration and no hardening against EMP,  maybe.  I agree that the gradual transformation of the sonic screwdriver to a magic wand, and almost the Doctor's defining superpower,  is one of the worst aspects of NuWho, and that 13 seems to use it a lot,  but not so far to the exclusion of more hands-on tinkering. Stuff gets made, levers are pulled, things are plugged in - it's an improvement.

Opening doors,  investigating holograms - that's what the screwdriver is for. Channelling the love of humanity to reset time, less so.
« Last Edit: 15 October, 2018, 11:23:44 am by TordelBack »

M.I.K.

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #114 on: 15 October, 2018, 11:51:40 am »
From a practical point of view nobody (sober) goes up close against people with 8-10 inches on them - short men, short ladies don’t. Your central nervous system knows not to.

This has not been my experience of short people. Or terriers.

Also, you're talking about a character who forgot they'd changed gender, only realised their legs used to be longer at a crucial point and needed it pointed out to them that they should probably change out of the damaged outfit they'd been wearing continuously for at least a couple of days.

TordelBack

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #115 on: 15 October, 2018, 12:05:58 pm »
Very few of the Doctor's incarnations have had ANY concept of personal space, at least not since No.  4. Squishing their face right up against people and lecturing them is what the Doctor does. Also, she's not a woman any more than that Tardis is a police box:  she's a quasi-immortal alien busybody with two hearts, and her power has never been about her physical size. And she knows kung-fu.
« Last Edit: 15 October, 2018, 12:09:31 pm by TordelBack »

JamesC

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #116 on: 15 October, 2018, 12:13:02 pm »
I think you're being a bit harsh. There were certainly some minor niggles but slightly rubbish robots and wonky science shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of Dr Who of all things.
As for the voice thing - I just don't get it. She sounds typical of a woman from the north of England - I wouldn't say her voice is particualrly shrill or anything.
The 'physical presence' thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I've never thought of the Doctor as being physically imposing and this episode went to lengths to emphasise the Doctor's 'brains over brawn' philosophy. Gravtias doesn't necessarily come from an imposing physical form either.   

 ‘ Woman popping off and invading space’ when

Fixed that for you.  :lol:

BPP

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #117 on: 15 October, 2018, 12:14:53 pm »

Also, you're talking about a character who forgot they'd changed gender

That’s a reasonable point although it dosent accomadate how the visual looks to an audience. Actually would be nice and clever writing if they developed your point in relation to her posture changing but I doubt they will.

It actually reminds me a lot of the problem The 100 faced when they kept having small teenage women (yes yes actually played by older actors obviously) try and front off against massive 6 foot plus warriors. At a certain point you have to acknowledge it just looks wrong and unconvincing. It’s not to say females can’t command a room or situation or have massive presence but they don’t do it that way.
If I'd known it was harmless I would have killed it myself.

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BPP

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #118 on: 15 October, 2018, 12:18:13 pm »
I think you're being a bit harsh. There were certainly some minor niggles but slightly rubbish robots and wonky science shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of Dr Who of all things.
As for the voice thing - I just don't get it. She sounds typical of a woman from the north of England - I wouldn't say her voice is particualrly shrill or anything.
The 'physical presence' thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I've never thought of the Doctor as being physically imposing and this episode went to lengths to emphasise the Doctor's 'brains over brawn' philosophy. Gravtias doesn't necessarily come from an imposing physical form either.   

 ‘ Woman popping off and invading space’ when

Fixed that for you.  :lol:
I’d ask you not to pretend to change my words.

‘Popping off’ is very much a junenile activity and I know what I wrote. I’m trying to voice problems I find with how this portrayal of the doctor is coming across to me, a person who has no problems with a woman being the doctor. You can go trough my posts here and see I have never expressed any issue about the appointment of a female doctor. I’m all for this one being successful and the next one being a female too.
If I'd known it was harmless I would have killed it myself.

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Colin YNWA

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Re: Doctor Who Series 11 Discussion
« Reply #119 on: 15 October, 2018, 12:33:17 pm »
FWIW I would have preferred the Tardis to remain elusive for a few episodes longer, with the gang hitchhiking around trying to find it or get back to Earth someone other way.


Yeah I really hoped they'd do this, think it would have been great fun. Alas not and I can see why they might have gone that way. After all its a key concept to the show and I'm assuming they want lots of new folks tuning in so best to get it established asap.

Still shame as it would have been a good setup. Mind that said the redesign now it is here is great.