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Author Topic: Prog 2106 - End Times  (Read 26449 times)

Geoff

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #15 on: 04 November, 2018, 12:31:09 pm »


(However if Dredd's magic horse turns up again to save the day, I'll be disappointed. That was the most ridiculous deux ex machina ever.)

At last someone mentions that horse again!

I was pretty unimpressed with all that ice creature business but then that horse turning up... that was a bit of a piss take.

The ice theme is clearly part of this story too...if the foam on Smiley's latte is anything to go by...although of course it's tea

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #16 on: 04 November, 2018, 12:39:51 pm »
Skip Tracer ... feels like a slightly more competent, but still dull and cliched mid 90s strip

Yeah, but it's the inoffensive Mambo, Trash or RAM Raiders, rather than the godawful Robohunter reboot or Fr1day.

Like Skip Tracer, those stories passed through my eyeballs and out the hole in the back of my head, but I'd rather see Tharg trying something new than demonstrating yet again that ideas have sell-by dates.

I am with Frank on this I would rather have something new than a rehash of the same characters (ABC Warriors of late has been for me the same old story with just a new colour-scheme). I actually like both series of Skip Tracer so far (maybe that is just me)

Frank

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #17 on: 04 November, 2018, 01:24:09 pm »
I actually like both series of Skip Tracer so far (maybe that is just me)

Whenever nineties strips like those I mention above get a Megazine reprint, readers usually say they quite enjoy them.

It's probably due to context; they're middling strips, but they ran at a time when everything was either middling or worse, so they get lumped in with the general bad feeling towards the era*

The idea that the reason stories caught on in the good old days was that they had long runs, often using more than one artist to achieve this, has been discussed here. I'm sure that's occurred to Tharg, too, and Skip Tracer might be him giving that a go.


* The second series of Skip Tracer probably benefits from running alongside stories that are mostly well received.

Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #18 on: 04 November, 2018, 02:32:55 pm »
I can see that, but ultimately, other reasons these middling stories didnt catch fire:

They didnt have a strong enough hook to build on - mutant bounty hunter / Judge, Jury Executioner / alien freedom fighter etc.

They didnt have a strong enough world to build on

They didnt have enough original material in the first place

I would most prefer new and good stories - If I have to choose one, I'd go for good.  Stories like Kingdom and Brink and Defoe all hit the ground running.  If by your second tale your NEWLY FOUND PSYCHIC POWERS leave you trapped inside a MINDSCAPE because some SHADY MILITARY ORGANISATION sought the ULTIMATE SOURCE OF POWER.  I'm not holding out for the switcheroo that takes that much cliche and turns it into gold


Jacqusie

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #19 on: 04 November, 2018, 08:29:43 pm »

Dredd.  I particularly remember Dredd openly questioning Hersey and her telling him to at least respect the office of the Chief Judge during Trifecta...

I've just re-read that episode and it was possibly Hershey's finest hour telling Dredd to wind his neck and with her final words to Dredd on the Kazan Clone report she demands "double spaced"...in Bullet to king 4.
This before she takes a bizzare change of both personality and command of the role of Cheif Judge in anything that Michael Carrol wrote for her...

My progs lost in the post again, so not seen this episode, but I do echo that Rob Williams is the definitive Dredd writer elect, there is personality here (and many clashes), intrigue, tension, twists and all fabulously written. Dredd feels and sounds like Dredd the Judge should do.

I'm just sad that there are more established Dredd world characters leaving us when we have just got to engage with them, there's not many interesting or endearing characters left these days...



Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #21 on: 05 November, 2018, 11:20:17 pm »
I know nothing will change your mind at this stage, but I can’t articulate how wrong you are about Brink.

It’s one of the most masterful, subtle pieces of work I’ve seen in the medium, consistently keeping you guessing about everything, even including what genre it is. Culbard’s deceptively simple art style is the perfect accomplice to Abnett’s calm, measured script. They should be teaching this shit in colleges as an example of what you can do with the medium.
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Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #22 on: 05 November, 2018, 11:30:56 pm »
(OTOH, you’re completely right about Dredd. This has been coming ever since Dredd strong-armed Hershey on mutant rights with the threat of his resignation only to admit to her, as she was being exiled, that he’d never have gone through with it. The hurt, as brilliantly drawn by MacNeil, felt by Hershey at that revelation broke their relationship irrevocably. Everything since then has been about their respective notions of duty — they’ve orbited each other, bound by those notions, but are some point that fundamental betrayal of what was a friendship, at least in Hershey’s mind, has to blow up in their faces.)
« Last Edit: 05 November, 2018, 11:35:28 pm by Jim_Campbell »
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Frank

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #23 on: 06 November, 2018, 05:29:40 pm »
(In Tour Of Duty) Dredd strong-armed Hershey on mutant rights with the threat of his resignation only to admit to her, as she was being exiled, that he’d never have gone through with it

Great observation. I'd always thought of that moment as Hershey's disappointment that Dredd wasn't resigning in sympathy/protest at her dismissal, but this characterisation adds another layer.

I saw Al Ewing's line about Dredd 'blackmailing (Hershey) with a badge he'll never hand in' as a reference to Dredd's initial gambit, forcing Hershey to repeal the mutant laws, but this is much better.

Tying this into a moment of human betrayal - as you say, the moment Hershey realised Dredd didn't view their relationship in the same the way she did - fits his long-established inability not just to do the human thing but to even understand what the human thing to do would be.

And it makes the force of the reaction Ewing ascribed to Hershey - which, at the time, seemed a little out of step with their established dynamic - much more compelling.  Good stuff.







Tour Of Duty Part One, Wagner & MacNeil (1650) and Bullet To King Four, by Ewing & Flint (1803)

Trout

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #24 on: 07 November, 2018, 12:45:47 am »
This is a bloody marvellous prog, especially Brink and Dredd.

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #25 on: 07 November, 2018, 02:47:29 am »
Another week another great prog.

Dredd easy beats all other contenders for the title of the week. The way Dredd dismisses Hersey is the point I know that something big will have to change.

Brink is one of these strips which I will rate the best of the year but strangely never the best of the week. This is just one awesome strip.

Skip Tracer I do enjoy and  find it amusing that people calls this 90s trash.

Frank

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #26 on: 07 November, 2018, 09:43:52 am »



Fiends Of Clacton Front is funny, but Roxilla's Guide To Writing Comics saw me breaking out the small hotel sewing kit to repair my sides.

My school library had a copy of How To Draw And Sell Comic Strips For Newspapers And Comic Books*, which I read and enjoyed. I would not have enjoyed it any less if I had known the author never sold a comic strip to a publisher that did not already employ him as an editor**


* The title of which has been changed in this more recent edition, both to make it less preposterously unwieldy and to reflect the change in relative fortunes and cultural capital of newspapers and comics. Every Ford Sierra had a Garfield suction-cupped to its window.

** Wry amusement, rather than shade. I've grown to quite like Alan McKenzie, although my opinion of his work has not changed. Probably an empathic response to entering the world of work and realising that I was now the guy out of his depth and trying his best to do something at which he was just never going to be much good. Obviously, McKenzie's handling of creators was disastrous, with long-term negative ramifications for the comic, but I would have been able to forgive his decision to write most of the comic himself if he'd been a talented writer.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #27 on: 07 November, 2018, 09:48:43 am »
Obviously, McKenzie's handling of creators was disastrous, with long-term negative ramifications for the comic, but I would have been able to forgive his decision to write most of the comic himself if he'd been a talented writer.
What still surprises me is how great Luke Kirby is. It's like it's from a different writer. In another reality, McKenzie would have swallowed his pride and continued writing that strip, rather than saying that as editor, he somehow kept all the rights for himself (dubious), and leading to precisely nothing further being done with the character.

Still, I'm quite happy to not see any more Bradley, Supersurf 13, terrible McKenzie Dredd, Mean Arena, RAM Raiders, and Soul Gun Warrior. (Universal Soldier and Brigand Doom weren't too bad, despite being rather derivative. Lovely mono art by Dave D'Antiquis on Doom, for one.)

Frank

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #28 on: 07 November, 2018, 12:10:55 pm »

Dredd/Hershey - in the tradition of Bennifer, Dreddshey - is interesting. The following assumes Dredd's 'I don't know her' isn't a ruse to fool Smiley (and the reader).

As we discussed following Chaos Day, in terms of legal precedent, Fargo Jr may have a point. Since McGruder's resignation, Chief Judges have been elected into office; Hershey was voted out and assumed command by invitation only.

Then again, Griffin and McGruder (twice) were battlefield promotions, too. Silver was a council appointment and I suppose it would be possible to argue we were just never shown the election process for his predecessors within the strip itself.

At the time, electing a Chief Judge was presented as something crazy old McGruder pulled out her arse*, but I suppose a system ostensibly based on the law places a premium on precedent. The interesting thing is that Hershey's never been elected, or at least she's only been elected in the same manner as Silver - by the Council Of Five**


* 'An election? I don't believe I'm hearing this!' (Parting Shots, Wagner & Ezquerra, 915)

** 'The feeling on the council is I should step up permanently' (Volt Face, Wagner & Wilson, 1167). Caveat to all of the above- 'WE'RE FASCISTS' (2101).

norton canes

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Re: Prog 2106 - End Times
« Reply #29 on: 07 November, 2018, 12:19:10 pm »
Haven't even looked inside the prog yet but oh my, covers just do not get any better than that.