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Author Topic: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters  (Read 8159 times)

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #60 on: 29 November, 2018, 01:36:15 PM »
The Small House was a really great Dredd story. I can not wait for the full thing to come out as a complete collection

Max Headroom

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #61 on: 29 November, 2018, 03:42:11 PM »
The complete collection lists 'Act of Grud' as the prologue to 'The Small House', but unfortunately I have no recollection of this 3-parter - can someone say when it appeared??

BPP

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #62 on: 29 November, 2018, 03:49:05 PM »
Prog 2004-06 (end of 2016)

Dredd, Sam And Giant vs the ninja invisible judges
If I'd known it was harmless I would have killed it myself.

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Will Cooling

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #63 on: 29 November, 2018, 03:58:42 PM »
Surprised at the lack o love here for this excellent Dredd, yes a wee 'Good to go Maitland' comms between Maitland and Gerhart would have plug that wee plot hole,  Dredd is a blunt instrument, but an experienced one. hence the planning.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

I'm toying  the idea that Smiley allowed Cal to prosper (Smiley won't have been in the sleep machines) so Cal would reduce the population and build the West Wall, to keep all that out there...
layers, like an onion, donkey.

As for the Hershey/Dredd thing, again loving how the job is driving them apart, you can feel Hershey anger at old Stoney Pus and his binary view.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

Great stuff, more Tharg baby more!

My gut is that Rob Williams is doing Breaking Bad style scripting where those obvious scenes are skipped because a) you want to maintain a fast pace b) those scenes are boring in of themselves and c) you trust your audience to fill in the blanks.
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norton canes

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #64 on: 29 November, 2018, 04:37:44 PM »
I've got a random prog from about ten years ago where the Dredd story involves the testing of a new high-speed Manta tank (or some kind of new Justice Division tech) but it's outpaced by a mysterious stealth craft. Was that part of the Small House arc?

Dark Jimbo

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #65 on: 29 November, 2018, 04:46:12 PM »
I've got a random prog from about ten years ago where the Dredd story involves the testing of a new high-speed Manta tank (or some kind of new Justice Division tech) but it's outpaced by a mysterious stealth craft. Was that part of the Small House arc?

I'm guessing that's prog 1554?

No, that was one of Gordon Rennie's stories - part of the 'House of Pain' arc. All his story threads have been dropped since he stopped writing Dredd.

Proudhuff

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #66 on: 29 November, 2018, 05:25:42 PM »
Wasn't the wheelchair bound Kazan one of the GRennie's droids hanging chads?  Could easily have misremembered that  :-[
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Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #67 on: 29 November, 2018, 05:37:59 PM »
Wasn't the wheelchair bound Kazan one of the GRennie's droids hanging chads?  Could easily have misremembered that  :-[

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Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #68 on: 29 November, 2018, 06:15:02 PM »
I'm not sure I get the Breaking Bad analogy, as I think that is very tightly plotted and gives you all the information required, though I admit I am still on season 3, so maybe random animals crop up to save the day later on?

For me, it is much more like Doctor Who, and vast swathes of modern story telling, where plot logic (and real world logic) are sacrificed for THE BIG MOMENT or CHARACTER CONFLICT or SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

As with most things, I blame Alan Moore, who could do all of the above.  But he earned all of the above by not jettisoning believability. That isnt to say real world  standards, but applying a consistent set of rules to your world - for me, Adam West Batman is more believable than Bale Batman because it establishes that the rules are different and sticks to that.

Writers nowadays are happy to present (or perhaps audiences are now accustomed to accept) vast logical leaps, multiple deus ex machinas,  contradictions and character shifts if it serves some  other narrative purpose - though sadly this isall too oftenmaking the writer/audience feel clever for spotting the meta reference.  I want clever stuff that you can endless dissect, sure, but craft is as important as art for me, and artless craft is as unsatisfying as craftless art - in fact craftless art is much less satisfying (probably why I am preferring the Toxic Dredd over in IDW land?). 

Ultimately, Dredd goes against Smiley and tension is built because we are led to believe he is outmatched by a superior intellect and unsupported by his closest ally - all good.

But to get there we have Dirty Frank needing to be rescued by Senstive Klegg for reasons, for Dredd to pussyfoot around asking Hershey, but having to ask her anyway and that working out just fine (was it a romantic comedy?)

 What happens to the one ninja judge they take alive?  Do they kill him? release him? does he escape when Frank kills Sam?  who cares, he has served his "story purpose", so we can forget about him now. All those ninja Judges killed, and nothing to show for it.

All of Dredd's attempts to get dirt on Smiley don't succeed.  He gets to kill some Judges but they are possibly "bad" judges but they might be "good judges", but Dredd think they are bad so he can shoot a few - Where does Dredd think he is going with this?  If Hershey ISNT on his side, he is screwed anyway, so it feels like fake drama.  Either the system is corrupt to the top and Dredd is proving what exactly by shooting some up (indeed, it appears that Hershey WAS, if not entirely happy, complicit with the compromised Smiley way of doing things.

Luckily, Dredd gets to randomly uncover that Smiley isnt just doing bad things for the beneift of the city, but also bad things to the detriment of the city. OK, thats fortunate, because without that his crusade was royally misjudged.  He only finds the hidden USB stick after he has already arranged to assassinate Smiley on the wall.  He has planned this somehow with a man who was banished to the Cursed Earth months previous and at a time when he has no evidence to justify Smiley's execution....

Ultimately, Hershey is OK with Dredd's non Judicial execution plan - phew!

Gah, honestly, if you like it more power, but I absolutely hate story telling that prioritises "cool", "character moments" and "EPIC!" to the detriment of plot.  You can have both you know!

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #69 on: 29 November, 2018, 06:18:18 PM »
I've got a random prog from about ten years ago where the Dredd story involves the testing of a new high-speed Manta tank (or some kind of new Justice Division tech) but it's outpaced by a mysterious stealth craft. Was that part of the Small House arc?

I'm guessing that's prog 1554?

No, that was one of Gordon Rennie's stories - part of the 'House of Pain' arc. All his story threads have been dropped since he stopped writing Dredd.

Yes it was Prog 1554 called "Test Flight" with Rennie adding words and MacNeil adding some pictures. Not part of the House arc

The Sherman Kid

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #70 on: 29 November, 2018, 07:31:42 PM »
Dredd Got to agree with Leigh that The Small House really doesn't make a lot of sense, far too many plot-holes for me to enjoy it (although the art was excellent).

As for the ending, that was a full face palm. Smiley explanation 1/ The city needed culling  :o Wtf!? What sense does that make? It was powerful because of its size.2/ War game scenarios predicted 90% chance of winning. What? In what reality?:o :o :o :think: :think: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: Even less sense.

The Dredd/Hershey tap dance did end satisfactorily either -just the oft repeated lecture Dredd gives to CJ's down the years, without anything new, so again, disappointing for me.

Steve Green

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #71 on: 29 November, 2018, 07:57:39 PM »
I dunno, once you get into the space economics of how MC-1 works - massive unemployment, near full automation it's all a bit up in the air.

Some kind of overdosing of the tranq gas to bring the population down steadily might have been a bit less drastic...

I wonder if he'd had democratic sympathies and it was a long-term plan to deconstruct the judges - that might have been an interesting route to take.

As for Frank, there's an epilogue story called Pets coming.

I'm not sure if I liked it or not, Hershey's descent from being fairly liberal to being involved in this, I'm not sure about - but it kept me interested.

Dandontdare

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #72 on: 29 November, 2018, 08:47:59 PM »
Without wishing to sound like a Trump supporter, have we seen any evidence of collusion? Dredd's had his doubts about Hershey and decided he couldn't trust her, but I can't recall if he ever found proof that she knew about Smiley.

Frank

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #73 on: 29 November, 2018, 08:57:11 PM »





Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #74 on: 29 November, 2018, 09:37:53 PM »
That's the stuff Frank - people are weirdly open about this covert stuff given Dredd is happy to put  a bullet through your neck.

This final part makes it explicit that it is just Dredd's hunch that Smiley covered up the Sovs plans - Smiley isnt that clever  is he?  A quick "well I told Griffin, but no one was interested / could do anything" and Dredd looks like a right sap.