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Author Topic: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters  (Read 8160 times)

The Sherman Kid

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #75 on: 29 November, 2018, 09:59:35 PM »

This final part makes it explicit that it is just Dredd's hunch that Smiley covered up the Sovs plans - Smiley isnt that clever  is he?  A quick "well I told Griffin, but no one was interested / could do anything" and Dredd looks like a right sap.

Exactly -plot hole #22 . Pity really there was potential in the story, but it opted for 'oh look there's a Klegg, or Frank' etc too often.

jabish

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #76 on: 30 November, 2018, 07:53:25 AM »
Leigh S. That long post of yours is terrific. Nail on the head time about some modern storytelling. I agree about Alan Moore giving the big reveals while still keeping you in a cohesive world he’s built and of course John Wagner was doing that for years before him. And still is. Small House was stunningly drawn and a page turner. And I enjoyed it week to week which says a lot for it as some thrills I now save to read I one go as they don’t seem to be built in weekly instalments. Maybe it was designed to be read in the moment and not thought too much about after. I see the Next instalment in John Wagner’s Mechanismo story is about to kick off in the new year, which of course has a Dredd v Hershey element too. Chances of it referencing Small House are low I’d say. We have 4 or 5 different Dredds at the moment. Alas. But then ‘This is my house (character)’ :P My two cents. JB

wedgeski

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #77 on: 30 November, 2018, 09:13:57 AM »
As for the ending, that was a full face palm. Smiley explanation 1/ The city needed culling  :o Wtf!? What sense does that make? It was powerful because of its size.2/ War game scenarios predicted 90% chance of winning. What? In what reality?:o :o :o :think: :think: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: Even less sense.
The Sovs had quite a few game-changing surprises for Mega-City One back then.

The Sherman Kid

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #78 on: 30 November, 2018, 09:43:38 AM »
One last thing -the death of Blondel Dupre was casually thrown in as amongst those assassinated by Smiley (as authorised by the CJ at the time), this also irked.

Dupre was the former leader of the democratic movement -(and quite an important character in Dredd history) . Dredd freed her before his long walk, becoming the Dead Man before returning to end Necropolis.

In the aftermath (Better the Devil you Know) Dredd pushes for an election mandate for the Judges, with support from McGruder and Hershey against Dupre and the democratic factions. Of course Dredd wins (substantive threat of democrats over).

Now it's casually thrown in either McGruder or Hershey (who sided with Dredd) agreed to have Dupre killed anyway  :o :crazy: What? Also several judges (why not send them to Titan? or are just bad opinions good enough to kill even judges -apparently so now).

To me it was yet another, 'look at this' moment that was ill-thought out. I normally really love  RM's work but this, despite great potential really doesn't work. I hope some of these glaring holes are pasted over via better explanation in the future.


NapalmKev

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #79 on: 30 November, 2018, 10:22:14 AM »
Regarding 'The Small House' - First off, I enjoyed it. Secondly, when the writing and art is this good I can forgive certain plot elements. If I may use the Star Wars saga as an example of what I'm on about...

The original trilogy is glorious despite some hammy dialogue. The prequel trilogy is a bit iffy but contains the Whizz-Bangs and excellent character design from the original trilogy, which is why I don't hate the prequels. Then we have the post trilogy which tries totally subverting what came before and monumentally Fuck's it right up and cannot be forgiven.

To be honest I'm not sure what my point is other than I enjoyed the Small House.

Elsewhere in the Prog we have 10 pages of Sinister Dexter, and yes, I did think it too many!

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Keef Monkey

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #80 on: 30 November, 2018, 12:18:44 PM »
Loved the prog this week, and The Small House is the first prog story in years that I'm going to sit down and read again in a oner without waiting for it to be collected. Used to do that with everything as standard but never find the time these days! I think this story demands it.

Tiplodocus

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #81 on: 30 November, 2018, 02:04:08 PM »

This final part makes it explicit that it is just Dredd's hunch that Smiley covered up the Sovs plans - Smiley isnt that clever  is he?  A quick "well I told Griffin, but no one was interested / could do anything" and Dredd looks like a right sap.

Exactly -plot hole #22 .

I don't know about that. A character not doing something I had thought of isn't a plot hole. It's a character not doing something I had thought of.

My wife thinks of things I don't all the time. It doesn't mean my marriage is full of plot holes.
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #82 on: 30 November, 2018, 02:07:09 PM »
My wife thinks of things I don't all the time. It doesn't mean my marriage is full of plot holes.

NARRATOR: Shortly afterwards, he was surprised to receive divorce papers citing "irreparable strains on willing suspension of disbelief" as the primary cause of the marriage breakdown.
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Steve Green

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #83 on: 30 November, 2018, 02:49:03 PM »
Surprised at the lack o love here for this excellent Dredd, yes a wee 'Good to go Maitland' comms between Maitland and Gerhart would have plug that wee plot hole,  Dredd is a blunt instrument, but an experienced one. hence the planning.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

I'm toying  the idea that Smiley allowed Cal to prosper (Smiley won't have been in the sleep machines) so Cal would reduce the population and build the West Wall, to keep all that out there...
layers, like an onion, donkey.

As for the Hershey/Dredd thing, again loving how the job is driving them apart, you can feel Hershey anger at old Stoney Pus and his binary view.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

Great stuff, more Tharg baby more!

How old is Smiley supposed to be? 60 tops?

Which would make him barely out of the academy around Cal's time.

Maybe he goes to the same place as Cass.

Richard

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #84 on: 01 December, 2018, 10:05:50 AM »
We don't know why Dupre was killed. Maybe she became radicalised off-screen and Chief Judge Volt decided to have her pre-emptively killed before she caused any more trouble. That's not so big a leap: even Dredd himself effectively murdered the terrorists at the end of America even though they were surrendering.

Frank

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #85 on: 01 December, 2018, 11:24:38 AM »
We don't know why Dupre was killed. Maybe she became radicalised off-screen and Chief Judge Volt decided to have her pre-emptively killed ...

Anything's possible in the exciting world of fan fiction, but that didn't appear to be the character's direction of travel.

From leader of the Munce Spring to an off-page Fridging by my least favourite Dredd villain since Captain Strange. Maybe Vanilla Batcave will make a comeback.


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sheridan

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #86 on: 01 December, 2018, 01:25:25 PM »
All horses are magic, as is friendship.

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Fungus

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #87 on: 01 December, 2018, 01:44:56 PM »
Loved the prog this week, and The Small House is the first prog story in years that I'm going to sit down and read again in a oner without waiting for it to be collected. Used to do that with everything as standard but never find the time these days! I think this story demands it.

Likewise. And I never re-read. Maybe the Act of Grud prequel mentioned earlier too...

So many highlights. The ‘culling the city’ comment, Frank and his dirtiness, Dredd’s quotable moments. And Flint’s gritty art, most glorious at the story’s beginning. As for plot-holes, pointing these out in a Dredd story is something I am finding odd, I must admit  :-\  A compulsion I find easy to resist  :)

Otherwise, finding the prog enjoyable but it’s a split decision. Dredd & Brink are tremendous, but the others are not engaging me at all. Kinda hope the aftermath in Dredd keeps up this quality for that reason.


IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #88 on: 01 December, 2018, 01:53:15 PM »
"the others are not engaging me at all"

But… but… KINGDOM.

sheridan

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Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
« Reply #89 on: 01 December, 2018, 01:56:06 PM »
But to get there we have Dirty Frank needing to be rescued by Senstive Klegg for reasons, for Dredd to pussyfoot around asking Hershey, but having to ask her anyway and that working out just fine (was it a romantic comedy?)


Dredd and Hershey in a romantic comedy?  Never!





Quote
What happens to the one ninja judge they take alive?  Do they kill him? release him? does he escape when Frank kills Sam?  who cares, he has served his "story purpose", so we can forget about him now. All those ninja Judges killed, and nothing to show for it.


That's what we thought when Dredd , but a year or so later we got  showing up.