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Author Topic: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]  (Read 10485 times)

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #180 on: 08 May, 2019, 04:09:18 pm »
Damn: modern politics is fucking difficult to navigate.  All writers should just stop writing anything.  Whatever they write, it's a terrible insult.

Oh, fuck off. Seriously. I made a much wider point than that. If you want to pretend it's all political correctness, why don't you just come right out and call me an SJW or something?
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IndigoPrime

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #181 on: 08 May, 2019, 04:15:35 pm »
if you want to enrage Daenerys you have to murder her best friend
Or, you know, do something else that would enrage her, which, let’s face it, isn’t exactly difficult.

The producers and writers made a decision to off Missandei because her arc was done, and because it would piss off Daenerys and Grey Worm. It’s borderline fridging, offing character A to motivate character B. And this is exacerbated by her being the only woman who’s a PoC of any prominence, along with, as The Atlantic noted, Missandei too often being a symbol rather than a character in her own right.

An interesting line also from Film School Rejects, who argue she should have jumped (or should have been allowed to by the scriptwriters) to at least retain some agency: https://filmschoolrejects.com/game-of-thrones-missandei/

broodblik

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #182 on: 08 May, 2019, 04:22:06 pm »
I am more concerned by the lack of Lattes in Westeros

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #183 on: 08 May, 2019, 04:23:58 pm »
An interesting line also from Film School Rejects, who argue she should have jumped (or should have been allowed to by the scriptwriters) to at least retain some agency: https://filmschoolrejects.com/game-of-thrones-missandei/

Which would actually have made more sense. Tactically, killing Missandei makes no sense other than for plot reasons to anger Daenerys and prove what an evil bitch Cersei is… neither of which really needed doing dramatically this episode. She is, after all, literally the only hostage in King's Landing Dany gives a shit about — her value to Cersei alive is considerable.

If Missandei had killed herself to free Dany to act, you end up with a plot development that a) is at least logical, and b) doesn't require fridging the only woman of colour in the series.
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broodblik

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #184 on: 08 May, 2019, 04:29:42 pm »
But that is exactly what Cersei wants, angry people make stupid and irrational decisions. Cersei do not care for the people of Kings Landing. Daenerys will not get support from anyone if she destroys Kings Landing

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #185 on: 08 May, 2019, 04:33:24 pm »
But that is exactly what Cersei wants, angry people make stupid and irrational decisions. Cersei do not care for the people of Kings Landing. Daenerys will not get support from anyone if she destroys Kings Landing

But Cersei will also be dead if Daenerys destroys King's Landing and we're not supposed to believe that she's suicidally evil… unless she's undergone a radical change of personality in the last couple of episodes.
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broodblik

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #186 on: 08 May, 2019, 04:34:32 pm »
Yes that is true but I ma sure she thinks even if she looses she still wins. The people will turn against Daenerys.

Adding to this if Daenerys do something irrational Cersei can say but she is truly her father’s daughter she is also “mad”

IndigoPrime

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #187 on: 08 May, 2019, 04:40:29 pm »
Again, it feels like moving chess pieces. Everyone needs to be in a specific position during episodes 3, 4, 5, and 6, and so how do they make that happen? It all feels a bit robotic, and like specific characters are armed with a cheat code. It’s also sloppy writing – there are plenty of other ways to show if Daenerys is becoming mad. (Ironically, they’ve done a good job at the subtler end of this, with her increasingly irrational responses to Jon Snow.)

broodblik

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #188 on: 08 May, 2019, 04:49:53 pm »
Daenerys obsession with the Throne has systemically driven her to "madness". These acts of the last few episodes just add some oil to the simmering flame. I agree that this season feels little weaker than the previous seasons. The most difficult thing is to end a story (for me this is the make of break of the whole story)

IndigoPrime

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #189 on: 08 May, 2019, 05:00:14 pm »
There are much bigger structural problems, some of which are quite endemic to movies/TV shows, but that GoT had largely avoided. The most obvious is the removal of the second act. So GoT has become all about set-ups and pay-offs, with no sense of time passing. It makes scenarios look impossible, and decisions seem to be absurdly impulsive. I guess that’s what happens when the creators are in a hurry to naff off and make Star Wars films.

sheridan

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #190 on: 08 May, 2019, 05:10:09 pm »
Was Ned Stark a black woman?

Checks notes...

Daenerys frees Missandei from slavery: so right there you have to (for woke points) start the complaints.  It's no good complaining only now that Missandei meets an untimely end.  Plot-wise, if you want to enrage Daenerys you have to murder her best friend.  The only way to avoid murdering a black ex-slave woman at that point is to have had her not be black in the first place, or a slave, or a woman.  OR you have to go further back and make Daenerys black as well.  Or something.


The only way I can see to have had the same types of events happen and the same people dead as of the end of the most recent episode is for Missandei to have been killed during the Longest Night and Ser Jorah to have been captured and executed.

radiator

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #191 on: 08 May, 2019, 05:12:02 pm »
For me the scene with Euron’s fleet v Dany in the latest episode perfectly encapsulates everything that frustrates people about the (post season 4) show;

Worthless new characters that bear zero relation to their book counterpart? Check.

Characters and/or entire armies improbably appearing exactly where they need to be to serve the narrative? Check.

Crazy leaps of logic and borderline incoherent storytelling? Check.

Formerly intelligent characters doing incomprehensibly stupid things? Check.

Utterly inscrutable planning, tactics and strategy? Check.

Beloved characters and/or story elements with a deep importance to the lore (in this case one of the dragons) getting unceremoniously written out because the showrunners are tired of this shit and just want to go off and make their Star Wars movie? Check.

All it needed was yet another instance of Jon Snow implausibly escaping certain death and an excruciating pop star cameo and it would have been a full house.

As a show, it’s still entertaining, and it isn’t boring, and I’ll keep watching because I’m so invested at this point. But I don’t think its unreasonable to point out that it used to be so, so much better than this.

As an adaptation, these last few episodes have me almost convinced that the people steering the ship with regards to the show perhaps don’t have the best grasp of the source material. Per the conversation between Sansa and the Hound (and also Arya’s arc in general), the moral of the story they’re telling seems to be; vengeance is neat, might makes right, and the only way to survive in a world where monsters exist is to become one yourself, which imho couldn’t be further from the message George RR Martin is trying to convey with his novels.

Sorry if that makes me spoiled! ;-)

sheridan

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #192 on: 08 May, 2019, 05:13:17 pm »
if you want to enrage Daenerys you have to murder her best friend
Or, you know, do something else that would enrage her, which, let’s face it, isn’t exactly difficult.


They didn't need to do anything to enrage her, she'd already seen Rhaegal shot down.

Quote
An interesting line also from Film School Rejects, who argue she should have jumped (or should have been allowed to by the scriptwriters) to at least retain some agency: https://filmschoolrejects.com/game-of-thrones-missandei/


That's what I'd been expecting/hoping would happen.

Funt Solo

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #193 on: 08 May, 2019, 06:11:11 pm »
Damn: modern politics is fucking difficult to navigate.  All writers should just stop writing anything.  Whatever they write, it's a terrible insult.
Oh, fuck off. Seriously. I made a much wider point than that. If you want to pretend it's all political correctness, why don't you just come right out and call me an SJW or something?

I entirely accept that I might be missing something.  I was really into the books, but my wife gave up after the Red Wedding.  She felt that the books had a misogynistic streak in the way that female characters got horrifically dealt with, a lot.  I just hadn't noticed.  (I mean: I'd noticed horrible things happening to lots of people - I just hadn't come to the conclusion that it was directed especially at the female characters.)

Wouldn't it be equally insulting, though, to have Missandei (or any fem-POC character) have Woke Armor?  I appreciate the agency idea, and the swap Jorah for Missandei idea.  But I also wonder about whether the desire for political correctness is sometimes unfairly applied.  (Not that it's "gone mad", or anything.  Just a bit more forceful than might be considered entirely sane.)
fate amenable to change

JOE SOAP

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #194 on: 09 May, 2019, 02:25:12 am »
The one thing that really didn't work for me was Jaime deciding to go back to Cersei, but on reflection there's ambiguity as to whether it's actually to support or kill her - he could be implying all the bad shit he's done was for or because of his relationship with her. He doesn't explicitly say which it is and there'd be a certain symmetry in him being King Slayer and a Queen Slayer.

With added ambiguity, the decision by Jamie to go back to Cersei was still on-point and in accordance with the growth of his character – as a knight he'd kept his word to defend the North and when the job was done he went back to Kings Landing.

I think it's more what they did to Brienne and Tyrion to get him there – which wasn't needed since seeing Bran again was the captsone on his realising the consequences of his actions and the need to atone (and possibly kill Cersei).

What was always more of a platonic relationship of mutual admiration – I'm glad someone like you exists in this world – that culminated in Jamie knighting Brienne, was suddenly turned into a bizarre episode provoked by an out-of-character line from Tyrion that results in both Jamie and Brienne responding with I'll show you virgin! – as if they ever need to prove anything of the sort to Tyrion or themselves.

I like friendly, drunken banter between characters, but that is just odd. Even a drunken shag with Tormund while Jamie slips off at dawn would've played better.

« Last Edit: 09 May, 2019, 02:30:58 am by JOE SOAP »