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Author Topic: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]  (Read 15114 times)

JamesC

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #225 on: 14 May, 2019, 10:48:16 am »
I liked it.
Does that make me a bad person?

Keef Monkey

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #226 on: 14 May, 2019, 11:12:08 am »
I liked it.
Does that make me a bad person?

I liked it too, so hopefully not.

IAMTHESYSTEM

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #227 on: 14 May, 2019, 11:25:46 am »
I watch the good bits on YouTube so yes it's grim stuff, but maybe that's the point? Daenerys is just another Queen who claims she wants to liberate all people, but in reality, she wants her self on the Iron Throne, not anyone else. If she ruthlessly destroys her enemies Genghis Khan style, she gets what she wants, revenge and to be the undisputed Leader of Westeros. The brutal killing of the innocent non-combatants happens all the time in modern warfare, and so since GoT parallel's our world [a world turned upside down by events], it shows that grim ugly truth in no uncertain terms. Daenerys despite all her beautiful words wants the Throne no matter what the cost to others and so she behaves accordingly. Also, I understand she's probably going to be revealed to be deteriorating into madness in the final episode, and like Daddy, she'll have to be done in perhaps by Arya or Jon if he's not dead trying to kill her the bittersweet ending. Yes, a lot of that episode didn't seem to gel well, but that's the way the Writers decided to take it which proved divisive and a bit confusing. If Daenerys proves to be no better than any other King or Queen before her why route for her? That I suspect is why they did this with some vicious relish your beliefs in the goodness of those wishing power are misplaced. An obsession with obtaining and maintaining Political Power makes you capable of any horror's. Even the 'good' can become Beasts to Power's uncompromising demands.
“You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension.”

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IndigoPrime

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #228 on: 14 May, 2019, 11:52:00 am »
I never saw her as a benevolent force nor someone who was inherently good. I suspect that aspect has really shocked people, who assumed things would be more black and white (and have somehow forgotten all the shit she’s already done). But after we’d seen the twist, that nonetheless felt like a gut punch. Then the punches continued to rain down, with the best part of an hour of television dedicated to burning bodies in the streets. Perhaps some people wanted – needed – revelled in – the carnage. For me, it was too much. Sure, the contextless (in the sense we barely even see Daenerys during the destruction) brutality is ultimately the point; but it ended up being an episode I can barely admire, let alone ‘like’, not least due to the manner in which this season has been constructed, stripping out its humanity, logic, and soul.

JamesC

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #229 on: 14 May, 2019, 12:27:52 pm »
I thought the various reactions to the carnage were really interesting.
The scene with John Snow losing control of his army and Grey Worm deciding to massacre the surrendering troops was excellent. Dani's behaviour seemed believable to me - it's interesting to think that the moment the bells tolled she was effectively Queen and her first act was to pick up right where her father left off. Jamie just wants to be Cersei's shining knight - and that's enough for him. Cersei, murderous scum that she is, is still a mother who wants to protect her child. The Hound is utterly single minded and when it looks like Arya is too, we realise that behind the fearless assassin there's still a young girl who's afraid to die. I felt sorry for Tyrion. He's finally realised he backed the wrong horse. I have a feeling it may be him who kills Dani (echoing Jamie's act), with Arya taking out Grey Worm and John on dragon rustling duty.

sheridan

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #230 on: 14 May, 2019, 12:46:30 pm »
I thought the various reactions to the carnage were really interesting.
The scene with John Snow losing control of his army and Grey Worm deciding to massacre the surrendering troops was excellent. Dani's behaviour seemed believable to me - it's interesting to think that the moment the bells tolled she was effectively Queen and her first act was to pick up right where her father left off.


As the episode unfolded, my first thought was that (after the bells) she was destroying her own defences as the city was hers from that point.  Of course, it got worse from there on.  Funny how we didn't get any reaction shots of Dany from that point.

JamesC

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #231 on: 14 May, 2019, 12:52:56 pm »
People online are saying lots about the scorpions being ineffective.
These people have obviously never played Nemesis or R-Type. Everyone gets taken out by those little turrets the first time, but once you know where they are...
 :lol:

IndigoPrime

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #232 on: 14 May, 2019, 01:03:01 pm »
Those things were a bit Stormtrooper for me. So you can shoot – an admittedly injured dragon – THROUGH THE NECK, after already having hit it twice, thereby enjoying a 100 per cent hit rate? But then every single ship shoots at Drogon and somehow misses? Pfft.

I suspect if one were to return to earlier Game of Thrones seasons and episodes, they would have their smatterings of plot/recurring character armour too, but they’ve never been quite so evident as during this run-in. Poor old Rhaegal – you were screwed over for a rubbish plot twist, as enacted by the worst villain the series had.

Keef Monkey

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #233 on: 14 May, 2019, 02:23:05 pm »
Those things were a bit Stormtrooper for me. So you can shoot – an admittedly injured dragon – THROUGH THE NECK, after already having hit it twice, thereby enjoying a 100 per cent hit rate? But then every single ship shoots at Drogon and somehow misses? Pfft.

I suspect if one were to return to earlier Game of Thrones seasons and episodes, they would have their smatterings of plot/recurring character armour too, but they’ve never been quite so evident as during this run-in. Poor old Rhaegal – you were screwed over for a rubbish plot twist, as enacted by the worst villain the series had.

Was the difference this time not that the dragon approached with the sun at its back? There were shots of Euron and co. struggling to get a bead on the dragon because of the sun, but they maybe could have made more of it. It seems a bit of an obvious tactic that you'd imagine Cersei's army would have thought of, but it's always seemed that mob had more arrogance than tactical savvy. I thought it was pretty fitting that something as simple as that made the difference.

People online are saying lots about the scorpions being ineffective.
These people have obviously never played Nemesis or R-Type. Everyone gets taken out by those little turrets the first time, but once you know where they are...
 :lol:

I like this explanation better though!  :lol:

broodblik

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #234 on: 14 May, 2019, 03:51:58 pm »
A dark episode and showed Daenerys transition into "madness". The girl we all liked in the first few seasons are now gone. We felt pity for her that she "lost" everything and have to life in exile. But even in the beginning  she actually only cared about what she wanted (her right to sit on the throne). Yes, I liked the episode.

Dudley

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #235 on: 14 May, 2019, 05:14:29 pm »
In the books Euron's horn totally works, I guess?

shaolin_monkey

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #236 on: 14 May, 2019, 05:40:33 pm »
She went bad faster than Anakin turned to the Dark Side.

Funt Solo

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #237 on: 14 May, 2019, 07:01:30 pm »
Probably just me, but it's in slightly poor taste to use the streets of Dubrovnik as a way of giving us all our vicarious war jollies. Less than 30 years ago those streets were actually bombed to hell - just weird thinking about how a survivor might view this glossy American programme essentially staging a fantasy re-enactment.

Dubrovnik was heavily shelled during the Croatian War of Independence (1991).  Whilst the King's Landing bombardment is partially filmed in Dubrovnik (and partially recreated on a set in Belfast), they modeled the fiery rain of destruction on the allied fire bombing of Dresden in 1945.

Whilst Game of Thrones is a form of entertainment, I don't think that disallows it from tackling difficult themes (such as the horrors of a civilian population being bombarded or a city being pillaged).  One might call it subversive.  Whilst watching it, rather than getting "war jollies", I felt shaken by the plight of the characters.  We could do with being reminded of Dresden's plight once in a while. 

Where some see nothing but hired extras running around on fire, I was transported to the world and engaged in the hope that the mother and daughter would survive - or maybe just the daughter.  But they died holding each other.  That people find this drama boring strikes me as odd. 

A key part of Game of Thrones appeal to me is that it feels like a real world.  Heroes die ignobly. Villains carry out atrocities but then gain our sympathy.  We follow power hungry egomaniacs and feel betrayed when we realize what they are.  Innocents die.  It's not a neat Hero's Quest.
fate amenable to change

radiator

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #238 on: 14 May, 2019, 07:24:10 pm »
Quote
The brutal killing of the innocent non-combatants happens all the time in modern warfare, and so since GoT parallel's our world it shows that grim ugly truth in no uncertain terms.

Well firstly, the show has already made that point pretty bloody thoroughly by now, wouldn't you say? And as I said before, there’s a world of difference between collateral damage and deliberate slaughter. This was the latter, which is why it was so wildly out of character, despite what anyone says.

Quote
I never saw her as a benevolent force nor someone who was inherently good. I suspect that aspect has really shocked people, who assumed things would be more black and white (and have somehow forgotten all the shit she’s already done).

To me, the whole retroactive ’Dany was always crazy’ slogan that’s doing the rounds is bunkum, and I think it’s a mistake to judge the actions of characters by modern moral standards when they are operating in a quasi-medieval feudal society. Dany has wielded political violence (as anyone in her position needs to, given the circumstances), and she’s made mistakes for sure, but she has also (mostly) been acting as a force for good in the world and is by and large a protector of the oppressed. I’m curious whether you apply the same moral judgement to Jon, or Ned, or Robb, all three of whom have executed people for breaking oaths, or simply for refusing to obey their orders… What makes their authority or dispensing of justice more legitimate than Dany’s?

I’ve also never seen Dany through the lens of ‘black/white or good/evil’. Many characters in the series do terrible things for noble reasons and vice/versa. If anything, my issue is with the show is precisely for having a rather binary mindset, as evidenced by flipping Dany’s ‘evil’ setting to ‘on’ in an incredibly jarring way. Do I think Dany's relentless pursuit of power will ultimately result in disaster in the books? Yes. Do I think she will suddenly flip to being a psychopathic mass murderer because she gets a bit upset? No. Never.

Quote
A key part of Game of Thrones appeal to me is that it feels like a real world.  Heroes die ignobly. Villains carry out atrocities but then gain our sympathy.  We follow power hungry egomaniacs and feel betrayed when we realize what they are.  Innocents die.  It's not a neat Hero's Quest.

Agreed, however the TV show has a nihilistic streak to it that the books do not have, and that nihilism has now completely overtaken the narrative. I, like millions of others, love these characters., and I want more from an ending to their respective stories than just speculating on which of them will kill the other. And that’s pretty much all the show has been reduced to now… My worry is without the romanticism and idealism of the books, you’re left with nothing to balance out the bleakness and cynicism, and if so, what was actually the point of it all?

If anyone’s interested, this video, a few years old now, perfectly nails the fundamental difference between the philosophy of the show and the books: https://youtu.be/ek2O6bVAIQQ

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #239 on: 14 May, 2019, 07:34:13 pm »
To me, the whole retroactive ’Dany was always crazy’ slogan that’s doing the rounds is bunkum

Balls. I've been saying this for at least three seasons. It's been effectively foreshadowed as at least a possibility for pretty much the entire series. You can not like it but to claim it comes out of the blue is just rubbish and "despite what anyone says" is just arrogant rubbish.
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