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Author Topic: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]  (Read 12356 times)

Jim_Campbell

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sheridan

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #166 on: 08 May, 2019, 10:11:43 am »
I remember hearing about an afro-centric fantasy author, though can't remember his or her name.  Just trying to work out what search term I need to find 'african fantasy' or 'black fantasy' without returning... inappropriate... results.

sheridan

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #167 on: 08 May, 2019, 10:12:36 am »
I remember hearing about an afro-centric fantasy author, though can't remember his or her name.  Just trying to work out what search term I need to find 'african fantasy' or 'black fantasy' without returning... inappropriate... results.

This might be a good place to start though.

Keef Monkey

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shaolin_monkey

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #169 on: 08 May, 2019, 10:42:03 am »
I remember hearing about an afro-centric fantasy author, though can't remember his or her name.  Just trying to work out what search term I need to find 'african fantasy' or 'black fantasy' without returning... inappropriate... results.

This might be a good place to start though.

Rosewater is excellent sci-fi set in Nigeria and written by a black author. Recommended!

IndigoPrime

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #170 on: 08 May, 2019, 11:14:14 am »
What Jim said. Also notable that one woman on the show who hasn’t been horribly assaulted by men, and who has a reasonable degree of agency because of her actions, Yara, had her great victory entirely off screen. FFS x infinity.

I still like the show, and I will watch through to its conclusion. But that last episode was pretty fucking tone deaf when it comes to diversity, and came across like it was written through the prism of white guys of a certain stripe. (The odd moment of realisation – that chat between Varys and Tyrion – cannot make up for the rest.)

Really, they need more women on writing teams and in editing/production roles. That’s the only thing that can fix this. My wife noted at the cinema yesterday how many women were on the writing team for Captain Marvel – and it really showed.
« Last Edit: 08 May, 2019, 11:15:45 am by IndigoPrime »

JamesC

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #171 on: 08 May, 2019, 11:21:15 am »
What do colour and gender have to do with it?

I find it hard to believe that anyone other than a white man would have written and/or approved the conclusion of the storyline for the only woman of colour in the whole series as: "let's literally chain her up and then have her brutally murdered on-camera to make the whitest of the white girls sad."

It's a little tone deaf. This entire episode is appalling in its treatment of its female characters, even by the fairly dubious standards of the show. Sansa is OK about all the rape and brutality and stuff because it made her stronger? Really? Or Brienne is humiliated in public by the normally decent Tyrion, who then demeans her again in a later scene, and then Jaime leaves and she cries. Or even the normally pretty egalitarian Tormund thinks Jon should be king because he does stuff that Danaerys has been doing longer and better.

I don't share a lot of the complaints people have about the show and am still really enjoying it, but that line from Sansa did give me a bit of pause. Couldn't believe they would go that route, all the rape and abuse was fine because it toughened her up and made her a woman?! I'm finding myself defending a lot of the show at the moment but that was so clumsy and rotten that it landed with a real thud.

Maybe I'm being too charitable to the writers but that bit with Sansa seemed to echo the scene in the previous episode between Theon and Bran. Bran's view was that everything that had happened had brought them to this pivotal moment (and implying that it was somehow neccessary for victory - something which I think was born out with Theon's sacrificial act). It seemed reasonable that Sansa might identify with that philosophy, while not diminishing the horror of the acts themselves. Also, there's a difference between being hurt and showing you've been hurt. No way was Sansa going to let The Hound see weakness.

Mikey

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #172 on: 08 May, 2019, 01:56:23 pm »
I really don't see the point in getting exercised about someone getting killed in a series populated by a fair number of bloodthirsty, murderous narcissists meself. There's not many actual innocent, decent folk in it as they have a tendency to get killed by the aforementioned murderous ones - like what happened in that episode. I'm not suggesting it can't be read as ill considered, but for my money it was consistent with what's gone before.
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sheridan

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #173 on: 08 May, 2019, 02:05:27 pm »
I really don't see the point in getting exercised about someone getting killed in a series populated by a fair number of bloodthirsty, murderous narcissists meself. There's not many actual innocent, decent folk in it as they have a tendency to get killed by the aforementioned murderous ones - like what happened in that episode. I'm not suggesting it can't be read as ill considered, but for my money it was consistent with what's gone before.

That's about what I'd have written in my next post.  I would also ask whether Ned Stark was in chains when he was beheaded, presumably so, but I won't know until I check.

Pyroxian

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #174 on: 08 May, 2019, 02:13:07 pm »
I'm not suggesting it can't be read as ill considered, but for my money it was consistent with what's gone before.

True, but it was a bit meh. Early GoT was all about the shocks and feeling that no character was safe. If they'd wanted to carry that on, they should have had Tyrion shot by all those archers (which was what I was hoping would happen). It would have had the same effect in making Danaerys angry, but would've been a shocking moment taking out one of the main players like that.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #175 on: 08 May, 2019, 02:19:08 pm »
That's about what I'd have written in my next post.  I would also ask whether Ned Stark was in chains when he was beheaded, presumably so, but I won't know until I check.

Was Ned Stark a black woman? Presumably you'd concede that there's slightly more baggage to that imagery for a black character than a white one, particularly in a series that's not overburdened with POC? And especially in an episode that served its female characters so poorly.

I agree with Mikey further down… for a minute I thought they might cut Tyrion down. Same plot result, but braver and a genuine shock.
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Mikey

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #176 on: 08 May, 2019, 02:40:51 pm »
Yeah, I agree if Tyrion had have been killed it would have been more of an enjoyable shock, but I think Denaerys maybe wouldn't have been quite so angry, given Missandei has become a genuine friend and confidant rather than a tool to achieving her aim as such. She was already pissed off Jon was getting all the kingly accolades despite her being the acknowledged queen of the (mostly) non Lannisters.

The one thing that really didn't work for me was Jaime deciding to go back to Cersei, but on reflection there's ambiguity as to whether it's actually to support or kill her - he could be implying all the bad shit he's done was for or because of his relationship with her. He doesn't explicitly say which it is and there'd be a certain symmetry in him being King Slayer and a Queen Slayer.
« Last Edit: 08 May, 2019, 02:42:54 pm by Mikey »
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wedgeski

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #177 on: 08 May, 2019, 03:01:52 pm »
Yeah, I agree if Tyrion had have been killed it would have been more of an enjoyable shock, but I think Denaerys maybe wouldn't have been quite so angry, given Missandei has become a genuine friend and confidant rather than a tool to achieving her aim as such. She was already pissed off Jon was getting all the kingly accolades despite her being the acknowledged queen of the (mostly) non Lannisters.

The one thing that really didn't work for me was Jaime deciding to go back to Cersei, but on reflection there's ambiguity as to whether it's actually to support or kill her - he could be implying all the bad shit he's done was for or because of his relationship with her. He doesn't explicitly say which it is and there'd be a certain symmetry in him being King Slayer and a Queen Slayer.
The Jaime moment worked very well for me. You can't escape the fact that in the first couple of seasons, he was absolute scum, whatever nobility he may have discovered now. And now his character has recognised that tension as well. How can such a man possibly have a future with the most honourable character in the whole saga? Answer: he can't.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #178 on: 08 May, 2019, 03:18:57 pm »
Was Ned Stark a black woman?
Quite. I’ve seen a lot of a few “but look how many white men have been killed” whining elsewhere. Yes, because there are so many roles for them.

Quote
I agree with Mikey further down… for a minute I thought they might cut Tyrion down. Same plot result, but braver and a genuine shock.
Yep. But he has the plot armour power-up. And that’s the problem at this point, I suppose. It’s all about moving the pieces into position for whatever conclusion has been devised – and it shows. (Everyone who bought it in ep 3 rather conveniently had come to the end of their respective arcs/redemption threads.)

Funt Solo

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Re: Game of Thrones: the last series [SPOILERS]
« Reply #179 on: 08 May, 2019, 03:57:52 pm »
Was Ned Stark a black woman?

Checks notes...

Daenerys frees Missandei from slavery: so right there you have to (for woke points) start the complaints.  It's no good complaining only now that Missandei meets an untimely end.  Plot-wise, if you want to enrage Daenerys you have to murder her best friend.  The only way to avoid murdering a black ex-slave woman at that point is to have had her not be black in the first place, or a slave, or a woman.  OR you have to go further back and make Daenerys black as well.  Or something.

Damn: modern politics is fucking difficult to navigate.  All writers should just stop writing anything.  Whatever they write, it's a terrible insult. 
fate amenable to change