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Author Topic: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread  (Read 3966 times)

TordelBack

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #30 on: 29 April, 2019, 02:08:54 am »
Keep 'em coming. You can never have enough of America's ass.

Here's my current musing: Thanos appears to have a much bigger invasion force in Endgame than he does in Infinity War because he hasn't expended many of them in his gathering of the stones: he lost Ronan's Dark Aster troops at Xandar, and then retook the Power Stone from the Nova Corps, which can't have been easy; he fought all the surviving AsgardIans to get the Space Stone; he appears to have destroyed much of Knowhere getting the Reality Stone; his Black Order got a kicking seeking the Mind and Time stones on Earth, even prior to Wakanda. The stoneless Thanos is just more militarily resource-rich than his later self.

JOE SOAP

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #31 on: 29 April, 2019, 02:29:41 am »
I don't buy into the idea going around that because this is pre-snap Thanos he's diminished as a character. He still knows everything that happened with Stark and the lads through Nebula's memories and adult Thanos from just before this period is still Thanos – the Titan that sees every other race as beneath him and still believes we should all go halvsies. He's really worse since he aims to go back to year zero.
« Last Edit: 29 April, 2019, 02:32:51 am by JOE SOAP »

Mattofthespurs

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #32 on: 29 April, 2019, 08:28:11 am »
Wow!

Saw it yesterday and there is just so much to unpack and to be honest I don't think I'll be able to do it until I've seen it a few more times.

The explanation of time travel by Bruce was one such instance where I spent a couple of minutes mulling it over in the cinema only to realise I'd missed something important when I was thinking about it.

Never mind. I was fairly emotional a few times too. I think the grandeur of the film plus it being the culmination of ten years of watching these movies was a bit too much for me at times but in a good way.

So many funny lines too. I must have laughed out loud at least 10 times.

Watching it in a packed cinema was an odd experience. For the first 2 hours it was like watching it in Picadilly station with a constant stream of people going to the loo and getting snacks but the final hour hardly anyone moved and during Tony's death scene you could have heard a pin drop. Still, I loved that resolution of Tony's arc. Going from a rich, self centered prick to the exact opposite was a fitting end. As was Cap's.

More than all that though the way it tied in the previous 21 movies really gave the back catalogue some gravitas and was brilliantly executed.

We all loved it in our household. Got home about 6.30 and had dinner and myself, my wife and my 15 year old Son spent the evening digesting and discussing it.

TordelBack

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #33 on: 29 April, 2019, 08:51:19 am »
I don't buy into the idea going around that because this is pre-snap Thanos he's diminished as a character

Agreed. He knows how it all ends, with him resigned and beheaded in a hut, and all his 'achievements' at genuine risk once he's gone.  If anything the 2014 Thanos is a richer character than the 2018 version, he gets to see the outcome of his life's work, and think again. It just seems that he's thinner because, unlike Infinity War, this isn't his movie: it's the Avengers's. He rightly doesn't get the same space on the screen.

Keef Monkey

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #34 on: 29 April, 2019, 10:30:01 am »
(hopefully with this being the spoiler thread it's a given that this will all be massive spoilers so won't need tagged)

I loved it, and was really taken by surprise by how emotionally invested I was in the whole thing. I mean, I've watched every film and enjoyed them all (loved some and merely liked others but they've all been fun), but for some reason going into this I really didn't expect it to hit me the way it did.

There were plenty of moments that had huge (and quite unexpected) emotional weight for me - I got pretty sniffly at Stark's sacrifice and welled up when he hugged Spidey - but the moment that actually made me cry was when everyone appeared for the final battle and Cap gave his 'Avengers...assemble' line. It probably wasn't the most unexpected scene in the world but seeing that and hearing that line it hit me so damn hard just how cool a cinematic thing this whole ride has been, and I was completely taken by surprise by how much weight there was in that moment for me. Had no idea I was so invested in the whole thing to be honest, it really snuck up on me! Goosebumps just thinking about it now.

It's genuinely an incredible accomplishment to have run all these threads and characters through so many movies over so many years and then to have it all come together in a finale as confident and great as Endgame blew my mind a fair bit.

Had very few quibbles with it, in fact I think my only one was that I spent probably a couple of hours of it wondering where Captain Marvel was and if I'd missed some explanation for her not being involved until she conveniently appeared in the final battle. I vaguely recall during the hologram conference call her saying she was heading off to do something but I mustn't have registered what that was. Was she going to bring in more reinforcements (the goody ships that joined the fight maybe)? I'm sure it is just me missing something but it felt really strange to have her set up as such a great character and then have her missing for so much of it. I loved her new hair, she looked very cool.

As others mentioned, the moment when every female character appears to back her up did feel a bit forced and cheesy to me, BUT it was also incredibly badass and cool enough to see them all come together that I was glad it happened. Plus although I did a partial eye roll at how unlikely and slightly silly it is that all those characters would converge on the same spot of the massive battlefield at the same time, I quickly thought about the small portion of the fanbase who will be livid about it and was immediately okay with its inclusion. Yes it felt a bit obvious and forced, but as a clear statement about just how little those particular toxic fans' rantings actually mattered to the film-makers I thought it was brilliant.

The length didn't bother me (I somehow managed to get by on a single quick loo break!) and we were talking on the walk home about how in years to come Infinity War/Endgame will become one of those things we probably bring out on the occasional rainy Sunday when blankets and an epic film are all you want.

I've seen a few people saying that seeing it in a busy screening really added to the experience, I wish it had in mine - the constantly rustling bags, phones, the chorus of watch alarms at the top of every hour, the really young kid in front of me who got restless and agitated early on (not her fault, definitely got the impression the cinema trip was for the parents and the older kid and she'd just been dragged along!)...none of that spoiled the experience as such but it definitely didn't add anything at all. If the movie wasn't likely to be spoiled for me I would have preferred to wait a couple of weeks until things quietened down, but that's the compromise you make to see a film like this on opening weekend so I knew what I was getting into and was fine with that!

That was a lot of ramblings, short version is I loved the film, and on a level that I didn't expect and in ways that I think will make rewatching all the movies again (which I'm currently very tempted to do) a very rich and rewarding experience.

Bolt-01

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #35 on: 29 April, 2019, 03:35:04 pm »
Thoroughly enjoyed the film, but there is just one - massive - error in my opinion.

When Cap takes the stones and Mjolnir back, according to the rules of time travel set out in the film it is to secure the events of that timeline and to reduce the variance in timelines that the Ancient One warned Hulk about.

However, once Cap decided he was going to hang around and stay with Peggy, he effectively set up his own timeline where he lived a very different life. Presumably he sorted Hydra out in the past and also got Bucky back from Russia, which would have further distanced his timeline from the 'core'. Or maybe he didn't. Maybe he just hung out with Peggy. Either way - he did not want to resume his role in the Avengers.

So, when Hulk et al fail to bring him back, Cap is found sitting on a bench. Was he sat there all along, just minding his business and watching the birds? That is the implication to me. Peggy probably still died during the events of Civil War so Cap has been on his own for several years.

The problem as I see it is that Cap should still have reappeared on the platform - as old man Cap. He would have used the 'Stark/Pym-tech' wrist control to home in on the 'core' timeline and he could have come from a world where he got to live as normal a life as he liked.

Whereas what we get is a 'who the fanzine' head scratch. As presumably the call from the time platform is still valid, and waiting for the signal from Caps wristband to bring him home.

Oh, and if Cap did go back to live with Peggy in the 'core' timeline - that would mean that in 2012 there were 4 Caps kicking around. The one living through it after being in the ice, the one going back for the tesseract, the one taking the tesseract back and the one making sure Peggy was out of town for the day.

Of course - I could be interpreting things wrong...

Tiplodocus

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #36 on: 29 April, 2019, 03:43:50 pm »
Something that made me laugh was that they took the time to make corporate branded timetravel suits.

Of course, once you have time machines, you can take your time over things.

I still don't get my lack of feels. Is it me? Or the film?

Return of the King was on telly the other night. I stopped to watch it for the fiftieth time. And still choke up at the charge of the rohirrim , Sam picking Frodo up and "You kneel for nobody". And that was after only 9 hours of film to make me care. Heck, even Boromir in Fellowship got to me after 3 hours. And Deadpool 2.
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Mattofthespurs

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #37 on: 29 April, 2019, 05:27:42 pm »

Of course - I could be interpreting things wrong...

Or just thinking about it too much.

Knowing the writers I'm assuming they have looked into this but...It's a movie. Don't let these things take anything away from the spectacle.

I'm sure there will be millions of words written about this, and Nebula etc, etc but it's like words. They are all made up anyway.

Mattofthespurs

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #38 on: 29 April, 2019, 05:29:30 pm »
Something that made me laugh was that they took the time to make corporate branded timetravel suits.

Of course, once you have time machines, you can take your time over things.

I still don't get my lack of feels. Is it me? Or the film?

Return of the King was on telly the other night. I stopped to watch it for the fiftieth time. And still choke up at the charge of the rohirrim , Sam picking Frodo up and "You kneel for nobody". And that was after only 9 hours of film to make me care. Heck, even Boromir in Fellowship got to me after 3 hours. And Deadpool 2.

Where as the whole Lord of the Rings stuff bored me to tears. I have read the books at least 3 times each but it has no emotional stuff for me. Games of Thrones doesn't either (but Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, and the MCU do)

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

TordelBack

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #39 on: 29 April, 2019, 05:49:17 pm »
The time-travel suits were just nanotech implementations of the AntMan suit, so I'm sure adding a bit of branding wasn't much of a stretch. Like Tony says in Age of Ultron, "I just pay for everything, design everything, and make everyone look cooler". He can't help himself. A bit of team re-building can't hurt.

I believe Steve did go back to Peggy in the core timeline, hence his presence on the bench, but like I was saying upthread, maybe 15 years on from the crash of the Valkyrie. And yep, Bolt is right, that places 4 Steves in 2012.

Today's reflection: I feel so sorry for Scott - he tried his best to stay out of jail so he didn't miss Cassie's childhood, even turning his house arrest into a cardboard play centre, and then he missed 5 years of it after all.
« Last Edit: 29 April, 2019, 05:55:18 pm by TordelBack »

Mattofthespurs

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #40 on: 29 April, 2019, 06:42:58 pm »
The time-travel suits were just nanotech implementations of the AntMan suit, so I'm sure adding a bit of branding wasn't much of a stretch. Like Tony says in Age of Ultron, "I just pay for everything, design everything, and make everyone look cooler". He can't help himself. A bit of team re-building can't hurt.

I believe Steve did go back to Peggy in the core timeline, hence his presence on the bench, but like I was saying upthread, maybe 15 years on from the crash of the Valkyrie. And yep, Bolt is right, that places 4 Steves in 2012.

Today's reflection: I feel so sorry for Scott - he tried his best to stay out of jail so he didn't miss Cassie's childhood, even turning his house arrest into a cardboard play centre, and then he missed 5 years of it after all.

And for me that's what this whole series has been about. Sacrifices. We all do it everyday.

Link Prime

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #41 on: 29 April, 2019, 08:42:03 pm »
Dissapointing.

< Explodes into cloud of dust >

blackmocco

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #42 on: 30 April, 2019, 12:06:35 am »
Thoroughly enjoyed the film, but there is just one - massive - error in my opinion.

When Cap takes the stones and Mjolnir back, according to the rules of time travel set out in the film it is to secure the events of that timeline and to reduce the variance in timelines that the Ancient One warned Hulk about.

However, once Cap decided he was going to hang around and stay with Peggy, he effectively set up his own timeline where he lived a very different life. Presumably he sorted Hydra out in the past and also got Bucky back from Russia, which would have further distanced his timeline from the 'core'. Or maybe he didn't. Maybe he just hung out with Peggy. Either way - he did not want to resume his role in the Avengers.

So, when Hulk et al fail to bring him back, Cap is found sitting on a bench. Was he sat there all along, just minding his business and watching the birds? That is the implication to me. Peggy probably still died during the events of Civil War so Cap has been on his own for several years.

The problem as I see it is that Cap should still have reappeared on the platform - as old man Cap. He would have used the 'Stark/Pym-tech' wrist control to home in on the 'core' timeline and he could have come from a world where he got to live as normal a life as he liked.

Whereas what we get is a 'who the fanzine' head scratch. As presumably the call from the time platform is still valid, and waiting for the signal from Caps wristband to bring him home.

Oh, and if Cap did go back to live with Peggy in the 'core' timeline - that would mean that in 2012 there were 4 Caps kicking around. The one living through it after being in the ice, the one going back for the tesseract, the one taking the tesseract back and the one making sure Peggy was out of town for the day.

Of course - I could be interpreting things wrong...

I'm sure I'm going to regret trying to wrap my head around this but my understanding of it was that Cap went back in time to restore the stones and stayed with Peggy but then just lived out the rest of his natural life under the radar, leaving another version of himself to live out the heroics. We don't really know if that's actually the case, the movie doesn't show us, but I'd assumed he didn't get involved in trying to change any of the events as we've seen them. He knows already how it'll all play out so he leaves it to fall as it will, himself living a quiet civilian life. Yep, in 2012, there would have indeed at one point been 4 Caps walking around. Him sitting at the bench as an old man was just him showing up at the time he knew the others would be there.
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Sinx

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #43 on: 30 April, 2019, 11:49:05 am »
I loved it. I thought the Russo Brothers did an awesome job wrapping such a huge sprawling mass of storylines from over twenty films. I know there are probably a number of plot holes all over the place but I think it's better to just enjoy the experience - there's no need to switch off brain but perhaps put it into low battery mode for a bit.
At first I thought they went too far with the comedy angle on dismantling Thor but, as someone else reviewing the film said, actually of all the characters he is the one probably portraying accurately the trauma of losing his entire family, his home and making a poor decision that resulted in half the living creatures in the entire universe being wiped out of existence. That would drive anyone into hole to drink themselves into a stupor so maybe later on we'll see a redemption of sorts.
I liked Dr Banner but I thought we would see him struggling holding back the angry Hulk persona especially when he hears Black Widow has died and was kind of disappointed when it didn't happen.
I would have liked to have seen Scarlet Witch go one on one with Thanos for longer. Anyone who knows the comics knows she is by far one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel Universe and I think she's been sort of wasted since Age of Ultron.

I did notice something weird - it seems that every single romantic relationship has been deleted from the MCU. Seems a strange thing to do.

Mister Pops

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Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
« Reply #44 on: 30 April, 2019, 12:20:35 pm »
Today I learned Kevin Feige recruited the Russos after seeing the first paintball episode of Community
You may quote me on that.