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Author Topic: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War  (Read 2936 times)

norton canes

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #15 on: 23 May, 2019, 10:02:04 am »
Dredd was interesting for two things. I never expected to see Siku back in the Prog. He art style has changed significantly.

I can see what he is trying to do on page 4 but it doesn’t really work. Ok have Dredd’s head/ helmet as a back drop and divide up the panels but how come the panels don’t line up? The top of the helmet is especially jarring. The close up on the top two panels also doesn’t work nor does the way the top panel of page 4 lines up with the top panel of page 5. Not that I think that was intentional

I think what's happening is, the top two panels close in on Dredd, then panels 3 and 6 are from the same frame (i.e. they're aligned) with 4 and 5 atop them, both slightly askew.

Siku's horizontal panels were probably less a philosophical conceit... and more a concession to comics being read on handheld devices

Interesting. Is that a thing with comics these days? Are layouts increasingly becoming a series of horizontal layers? Is it eventually leading to 'responsive' layouts where panels are shuffled around according to screen ratios? 



Pyroxian

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #16 on: 23 May, 2019, 10:22:07 am »
Interesting. Is that a thing with comics these days? Are layouts increasingly becoming a series of horizontal layers? Is it eventually leading to 'responsive' layouts where panels are shuffled around according to screen ratios?

Not that I've noticed. Even digital-only comics still have vertical / non-square panels. Two pages before those Dredd Helmet panels there are some diagonal panels. And even that Dredd Helmet page has speech balloons that overlap previous panels. And don't get me started on the layout of Scarlet Traces and Kingmaker - at one point Crixus' cloak is used as a panel border...

I, Cosh

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #17 on: 23 May, 2019, 10:39:06 am »
Agree that this whole setup episode of Dredd could've been done in a page or two but as the highlight of the Prog was having Siku back, it's all good. I know it's been a long time but surprised to see how much his style has changed. Quite a reserved palette for our man but I loved some of the things he was doing with perspective and panel overlays. Personally I thought that page with Dredd's helmet backgrounding every panel was fantastic.

I've rather lost the plot with this Scarlet Traces after enjoying the previous runs so I'll file it for a reread. I realise why and that my criticism is invalid but the whole thing has been too red compared with what we've had before.

Max Normal is a character suited to occasional appearances like the excellent one-off Guy Davis wrote a couple of years back. Like Solo (not the Mario van Peebles one) this current story has gone on too long trying to explain things which really don't need to be explained and the script is showing the strain of having to sustain the speech of Max's brain.

3Riller seems fine and I'm enjoying Kingmaker although I agree that Crixus needs some sort of vulnerability if this is to continue.

Interesting. Is that a thing with comics these days? Are layouts increasingly becoming a series of horizontal layers? Is it eventually leading to 'responsive' layouts where panels are shuffled around according to screen ratios?
Don't know about the responsive layouts but it's definitely having an impact on the way comcs are laid out. I think it was an interview with Al Ewing where he said he'd basically never have a double page splash in a script now becuase of how shittily a lot of readers handle that. Maybe the newer generation of bigger tablets will change that back.
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Richard

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #18 on: 23 May, 2019, 01:13:26 pm »
Comics aren't meant to be read digitally. If you try and it looks shit, you've only yourselves to blame!  ;)

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #19 on: 23 May, 2019, 02:19:30 pm »
Comics aren't meant to be read digitally. If you try and it looks shit, you've only yourselves to blame!  ;)

That is true but not all of use have access to a physical copy of the prog. I will even make a general statement that reading was never "designed" for digitally consumption.  The reality is that this will become our primary media (we do not need to like it but that is what it is) .

I agree with Cosh where the Dredd strip used Dredd's helmet as the panel layout was excellent.

MacabreMagpie

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #20 on: 23 May, 2019, 06:41:30 pm »
This might be a common feature now which will expose my ignorance but I had a comics-reading app once (or possibly it was just a feature of a digital version of a specific comic) that displayed it one panel at a time, like an interactive storyboard. It was a shite way to read a comic, for an artist who appreciates a unique page layout at least.

Also pleased to see Siku again!

Darren Stephens

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #21 on: 23 May, 2019, 06:53:34 pm »
Personally I thought that page with Dredd's helmet backgrounding every panel was fantastic.

Me too!
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Frank

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #22 on: 23 May, 2019, 07:58:37 pm »

I too feel the handle of the genius switch has broken off in Siku's hand.

Trying to explain why someone should like something they don't is pointless, but, even if you don't think Dredd's big heid works as a storytelling device, you've got to admit it works as a fantastically surreal image in its own right.



The repeating red diagonals of Dredd's helmet work lovely as a design element and the extreme close-up on Dredd's dome when the action moves inside his head - as the story switches to flashback - is as clever as it is literal.



Worked for me on every level. Since I mentioned Ezquerra's use of a similar technique (above), I'll admit I sometimes wished Carlos did what Siku did here, and offset the panels a little, so the image didn't join up so perfectly. Not sure I still agree with Kid Me on that score.



That wee guy held many strong opinions on lots of topics. Now, I'm not sure he was right.





sheridan

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #23 on: 23 May, 2019, 08:54:35 pm »
Interesting. Is that a thing with comics these days? Are layouts increasingly becoming a series of horizontal layers? Is it eventually leading to 'responsive' layouts where panels are shuffled around according to screen ratios?
Don't know about the responsive layouts but it's definitely having an impact on the way comcs are laid out. I think it was an interview with Al Ewing where he said he'd basically never have a double page splash in a script now becuase of how shittily a lot of readers handle that. Maybe the newer generation of bigger tablets will change that back.


To be fair - double page splash pages became rare when 2000ad ditched the centre spread splash pages.  Not sure why they did that, presumably having an eye on the Titan / Fleetway / Egmont reprint collected editions?  Can't remember when they disappeared, but we had them for the Judge Dredd Oz epic, but not for Necropolis?

Frank

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #24 on: 23 May, 2019, 09:16:47 pm »
... double page splash pages became rare when 2000ad ditched the centre spread splash pages.  Not sure why they did that, presumably having an eye on the Titan / Fleetway / Egmont reprint collected editions?  Can't remember when they disappeared, but we had them for the Judge Dredd Oz epic, but not for Necropolis?

Centrespreads were a feature of Dredd occupying the only two colour pages in the comic, a slot reserved for the most popular strip. Once the comic went full colour, Dredd moved to the front of the comic, since Tharg reckons the most popular strip should open the comic. *

Since the first page of the opening strip runs on the first facing page of the comic, it can't be a double page spread. The centrespreads and Dredd's position in the comic's running order are discussed in detail here, by 2000ad aficionado Ian Hollingsworth.


* ...and the second strongest strip should run at the end of the comic, to leave the reader on a high.

CalHab

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #25 on: 24 May, 2019, 08:33:42 am »
To be fair - double page splash pages became rare when 2000ad ditched the centre spread splash pages.  Not sure why they did that, presumably having an eye on the Titan / Fleetway / Egmont reprint collected editions?  Can't remember when they disappeared, but we had them for the Judge Dredd Oz epic, but not for Necropolis?

Now I'm going to have to look up the Case Files, as I'm sure I remember a couple of DPS in Necropolis with the sisters over the ruined city. Maybe the peak-Carlos art has been expanded in my memory.

I, Cosh

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #26 on: 24 May, 2019, 09:56:53 am »
To be fair - double page splash pages became rare when 2000ad ditched the centre spread splash pages.  Not sure why they did that, presumably having an eye on the Titan / Fleetway / Egmont reprint collected editions?  Can't remember when they disappeared, but we had them for the Judge Dredd Oz epic, but not for Necropolis?
Not completely. Red Seas was full of double page splashes as is ABC Warriors. More recntly, Kingmaker and Lawless have had a few in their relatively short life. They still exist and still impress, but at least one goood writer feels that the digital readership has had an impact on the way he writes a script.
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Frank

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #27 on: 24 May, 2019, 12:52:42 pm »
Can't remember when they disappeared, but we had them for the Judge Dredd Oz epic, but not for Necropolis?

Now I'm going to have to look up the Case Files, as I'm sure I remember a couple of DPS in Necropolis with the sisters over the ruined city. Maybe the peak-Carlos art has been expanded in my memory.

https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=43932.msg1004650#msg1004650

... and, as Cosh says, other strips sometimes go large. Simon Davis's Slaine was told mostly in double page spreads.



broodblik

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #28 on: 24 May, 2019, 01:07:43 pm »
I am a digitally only reader and I do not find any double page spreads as an issue. The readers do cater for this quite easily anyway.

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2132 - Bringer of War
« Reply #29 on: 24 May, 2019, 09:52:10 pm »
Going to be really rude and note that those of us viewing Tooth on a device are not reading a digital comic, we are reading a digital copy of a physical comic. It's like looking at an iPhone panorama of Monet's waterlilies at the Orangerie and observing that it's all blurry. It's not the medium it's designed for (yet).

Thought Siku's Dredd was both a surprise and a treat. Everything else was tickety-boo too.