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Author Topic: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence  (Read 5187 times)

Dandontdare

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #15 on: 04 June, 2019, 06:14:49 pm »
Do I want an argument about arguing with Jim?

Now where's that 10 foot pole......

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #16 on: 04 June, 2019, 06:25:38 pm »
See, that's the part that could be taken as patronizing.  Or, to put it another way: it suggests that you have apparently boundless wisdom.  *cough*

OK, look. Help me out here. I deploy a perfectly normal rhetorical device which a non-trivial number of people choose to misunderstand, possibly intentionally, possibly not. Yes… I suppose I could just not respond when someone says something I think is stupid/ offensive/ whatever, but this is a discussion forum, so that seems like kind of an odd solution. Somewhat at a loss, I thought I'd break it down, simply so that people who insist on misunderstanding it can't claim it's never been explained to them.

Crucially, I'm not talking about you so I have no idea why you're arguing the toss with me on this.
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Funt Solo

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #17 on: 04 June, 2019, 06:37:21 pm »
Honestly, I thought your response (starting this thread and the length of the opening post and the numbered list of "how to debate properly") was out of proportion with the perceived slight.

And I'm posting about it because...

...this is a discussion forum...

I'm quite happy for you to take a contrary view.  That we both get to have a view is great.

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Hawkmumbler

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #18 on: 04 June, 2019, 06:39:44 pm »
... that cover was out of proportion ...

B'dum tish.

Tordelback, what a guy!

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #19 on: 04 June, 2019, 06:44:41 pm »
Honestly, I thought your response (starting this thread and the length of the opening post and the numbered list of "how to debate properly") was out of proportion with the perceived slight.

The perceived slight was Richard accusing me of aggressive behaviour towards multiple members of this forum, based on a possibly wilful misunderstanding of a pretty inconsequential point I was making. I'll concede there's a remote possibility that I may have over-reacted but I honestly found that quite hurtful.
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Funt Solo

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #20 on: 04 June, 2019, 06:55:52 pm »
It would probably be silly of me to try and referee your spat with Richard.  I'm sorry you felt hurt, though.
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #21 on: 04 June, 2019, 08:13:46 pm »

We've butted heads on this forum often enough, Jim, and you can come across as aggressive but I'm content to accept that you don't mean to. In any case, I wouldn't criticise you for it as I'm reliably informed that my own style can seem arrogant/condescending/disrespectful (pick one or all of the above) - even though I don't intend to come across that way.

I enjoy our discussions so don't ever change - I know I won't!

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Be excellent to each other. And party on!

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SIP

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #22 on: 04 June, 2019, 09:10:28 pm »
On a not entirely unrelated note, I have found the forum an increasingly confrontational and "cliquey" place over the last year. You expect clique, but hope for a little more tolerance. Expressing an opinion or preference here can occasionally feel like sticking your head above the parapet.

To be fair, it has always had that edge to varying degrees, but I feel like I have witnessed more people getting cut down (especially newer people) over the last year.

In my opinion. For what that's worth.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #23 on: 04 June, 2019, 09:21:37 pm »
To be fair, it has always had that edge to varying degrees, but I feel like I have witnessed more people getting cut down (especially newer people) over the last year.

By me?
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SIP

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #24 on: 04 June, 2019, 09:37:25 pm »
To be fair, it has always had that edge to varying degrees, but I feel like I have witnessed more people getting cut down (especially newer people) over the last year.

By me?

I'm not looking to fire shots off at anyone personally, Jim.

I've been here for 14 years now and have found the general tone has moved increasingly towards condescension and passive-aggressiveness. I'm rarely here anymore as a result as honestly, I generally feel unwelcome (and it's entirely possible that's just my perception).

Maybe people need to be more measured in their responses and altogether more tolerant of opinions that may not be their own.

No doubt part of the problem is also the shorthand and understanding that exists between a group of people who know each other very well.

Hawkmumbler

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #25 on: 04 June, 2019, 09:49:10 pm »
I'll be the first to admit I can be somewhat reactionary. I do feel, and hope to convey, that I have mellowed quiet a bit over time.

I've only had the misfortune to blocking 1 member of the broader 2000AD community online, but compared to other quarters of the comicdome sphere, this place is a heaven of peace.

Robin Low

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #26 on: 04 June, 2019, 09:51:26 pm »
I've been here for 14 years now and have found the general tone has moved increasingly towards condescension and passive-aggressiveness.

Well, if you'd been around as long as some of us have, you'd know that's simply nonsense.

Regards,

Robin

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #27 on: 04 June, 2019, 09:52:49 pm »
I'm not looking to fire shots off at anyone personally, Jim.

That’s a pretty weaselly way of saying “yes”, Si. Since this entire thread is more or less about my behaviour, and you chose to add a post about people behaving badly, there is inference invited to connect the two. I don’t think that’s fair, which is why I asked the question. If the answer was “no” then saying so wouldn’t have been “firing of shots”, would it?
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SIP

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #28 on: 04 June, 2019, 10:06:52 pm »
I'm not looking to fire shots off at anyone personally, Jim.

That’s a pretty weaselly way of saying “yes”, Si. Since this entire thread is more or less about my behaviour, and you chose to add a post about people behaving badly, there is inference invited to connect the two. I don’t think that’s fair, which is why I asked the question. If the answer was “no” then saying so wouldn’t have been “firing of shots”, would it?

Jim, I don't have the power to influence how you choose to interpret my posts, could have done without the "weaselly" comment though.

I think my comment was transparent and could be alternately expressed as "naming no names", as I don't see it as constructive to call individuals out on a public forum. I wanted to take the opportunity to express my current view on the atmosphere (sometimes) of the forum and, as I pointed out, this discussion is "not entirely unrelated" to that discussion.
« Last Edit: 04 June, 2019, 10:11:10 pm by SIP »

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Basic Argumentation, And The Causing Of Offence
« Reply #29 on: 04 June, 2019, 10:12:01 pm »
“No. Not you, personally.”

That’s all that would have been required but, instead, we have two posts doing their absolute best to avoid saying that. In my book, that’s a weaselly way of saying “yes”. No one’s asking you to “name names”, I’m asking you to clarify that on a thread about my behaviour, the behaviour you’ve described isn’t about me.

EDIT: you don’t have to respond, obviously, Si. I’m sorry you think what you do, and I just want to make it clear that I would vigorously refute any suggestion that I’ve been “cutting down newer people”, were such a suggestion forthcoming.
« Last Edit: 04 June, 2019, 10:16:58 pm by Jim_Campbell »
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