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Author Topic: Prog 2143 - The End  (Read 2972 times)

Greg M.

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #30 on: 09 August, 2019, 12:53:01 pm »
I was thinking about it, and Wagner seemed to mostly reserve that treatment for Joe during the mega-epics. 'Howler' stands out as a memorable non-epic-story example.

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #31 on: 09 August, 2019, 12:55:48 pm »
There's an added wobble to this week's Dredd in that Pin's origin is revealed as basically the same as Theo's was shown in Anderson last week. Not Williams'fault, but unfortunatel timing. 

I do like the identification of Chaos Day as Dredd's failure though: it really is, it was the city's biggest crisis and he outright lost.

Frank

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #32 on: 09 August, 2019, 01:00:48 pm »
There's an added wobble to this week's Dredd in that Pin's origin is revealed as basically the same as Theo's was shown in Anderson last week. Not Williams'fault, but unfortunatel timing.

Dredd and Thistlebone both feature sacrificial virgins lured to remote locations by serial killers who slit their victims' throats.



TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #33 on: 09 August, 2019, 03:45:41 pm »
There's an added wobble to this week's Dredd in that Pin's origin is revealed as basically the same as Theo's was shown in Anderson last week. Not Williams'fault, but unfortunatel timing.

Dredd and Thistlebone both feature sacrificial virgins lured to remote locations by serial killers who slit their victims' throats.

Yeah, but that's every 2000AD story, eventually.

Frank

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #34 on: 09 August, 2019, 05:48:00 pm »
There's an added wobble to this week's Dredd in that Pin's origin is revealed as basically the same as Theo's was shown in Anderson last week. Not Williams'fault, but unfortunatel timing.

Dredd and Thistlebone both feature sacrificial virgins lured to remote locations by serial killers who slit their victims' throats.

Yeah, but that's every 2000AD story, eventually.

You're thinking of pirates. They all become pirates.



Geoff

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #35 on: 09 August, 2019, 06:07:50 pm »

I do like the identification of Chaos Day as Dredd's failure though: it really is, it was the city's biggest crisis and he outright lost.

There's no doubt that MC1 lost and therefore so did Dredd, but was Chaos day really Dredd's failure? It's often seen as such and Dredd certainly sees it that way.  It's right that it was in retaliation for Dredd's nuclear strike in AW and that Dredd wasn't able to save the city from the worst of the Chaos Bug.  I do remember a point though where Dredd strongly advises that a ground assault is the only way to be sure that the agents are eliminated and his advice is either ignored or over-ruled.  The airstrike does not work allowing the agents to escape. Had Dredd been listened to, then the disaster would likely have been averted at that stage.  (Note: I'm far from sure about this, but this is how I remember it...)   

Woolly

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #36 on: 09 August, 2019, 06:55:11 pm »
That sounds pretty spot-on to me.
Dredd didn't lose as such, but Justice Dept and Mega-City 1 did. And that's where the old man's heart lies.

Jacqusie

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #37 on: 09 August, 2019, 07:01:47 pm »
 *Sob* ... g'bye Harry... a wonderful series which has enthralled and delighted in equal measure, a true all time great of 2000AD. Too many good ideas in Harry's (Cabalistics?) world over the years to leave them in finality surely?  :think:

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #38 on: 09 August, 2019, 07:25:28 pm »
I'm not saying that Dredd was at fault in Day of Chaos - he generally made the right calls, even if Nadia had reduced his direct effectiveness. My point is that he failed to save his city, that the oppressive controlling nature of the Justice Department that he is the living symbol of meant it was unable to counter Borisenko's strategy, that the devil's bargain made in 'Twilight's Last Gleaming' finally collapsed. The Law oppresses and brutalises the citizens in order to protect them: it didn't. Dredd didn't.

geronimo

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #39 on: 09 August, 2019, 07:27:42 pm »
*Sob* ... g'bye Harry... a wonderful series which has enthralled and delighted in equal measure, a true all time great of 2000AD. Too many good ideas in Harry's (Cabalistics?) world over the years to leave them in finality surely?  :think:

Would THE P.C. BRIGADE be a good idea for a spin-off? Jen and Daniel could still be pursuing the last of the Rathborne's, in fact there are still a few plot holes to be filled.

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #40 on: 09 August, 2019, 07:30:10 pm »
More of my waffle: in every other major crisis Joe comes riding out of the Curses Earth or the Undercity or Proteus at the last moment and saves the city, because he is a judge, steadfast and unbreakable. Day of Chaos ends with him corralling doomed victims in a stadium to die.

Greg M.

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #41 on: 09 August, 2019, 07:44:17 pm »
Between that and then-contemporary events in Strontium Dog, John Wagner was really plumbing the black depths of nihilism in 2012. Day of Chaos is a remarkable work, but god, it's depressing.

Frank

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #42 on: 09 August, 2019, 08:06:05 pm »
Between that and then-contemporary events in Strontium Dog, John Wagner was really plumbing the black depths of nihilism in 2012. Day of Chaos is a remarkable work, but god, it's depressing.

Spookily, the previous time Wagner quit 2000ad*, Johnny Alpha died (Final Solution) and both Dredd and MC1 were taken right up to the point of annihilation (Necropolis)


* Wagner's said he meant Day Of Chaos to be his final Dredd story.

Colin YNWA

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #43 on: 09 August, 2019, 09:03:13 pm »
Late to the party as just back from a week away. What a lovely Prog to return to. In a typically brutal 2000ad way.

Dredd - The secret origin of Pin is suitably grim and dark. Its a chilling episode.

Indigo Prime - Just brilliantly entertaining. Godzillulhu fight. Kek-W is not John Smith but he does manage one glorious Smothesque trick, he makes all the mindbending stuff somehow make perfect sense... well maybe not perfect but story sense at least. Lee Carter somehow makes it all look real too! That's some talent.

Anderson - As it was I'm afraid.

Thistlebone - All it has to do is stick the landing. Its timed everything else to perfection so come on. Its built to this gripping penultimate episode which just hangs things perfectly.

Absalom - oh and speaking of sticking the landing - bingo - well done Grennie and Trevallion (and all other involved) - its may have not saved too many shocks just it does what it does perfectly and so touchingly. Looking forward to reading all this in one go one day. Suspect it will hang together very well.  Took me a while to get into this series the way others seemed to straightaway but feels like its built deftly from the start up.

Very strong 4 of 5 here and lets see how the shuffle holds up into 2150.

Frank

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Re: Prog 2143 - The End
« Reply #44 on: 09 August, 2019, 09:27:36 pm »
Dredd and Thistlebone both feature sacrificial virgins lured to remote locations by serial killers who slit their victims' throats.

More George Lucas-style rhyming within the Dredd strip itself: together with The Samaritan, Dredd's spent 5 of the last 8 weeks immobile and needing rescuing by a supporting character. Both stories join the spate of recent tales where Dredd's laid-up and weakened.

It's maybe the natural corollary of the regular doings (as Greg points out) the not-Wagners give Dredd, but there doesn't seem much point using story space to update us on all the magic ways Dredd's youth and vigour have been restored only to turn him into a damsel who hangs around waiting for the Ant Hill Mob to show up and rescue her.

I've speculated Dredd's regular poundings are the manifestation of unconscious frustration with feeling unable to do anything with the character*, but turning him into a passive victim negates the character's appeal, which one of this board's greatest members described as the paradoxical fun of watching a bully inflict cruelty and humiliation upon others.

RE virginity: Just realised Dredd's definitely been pumped at least once:





* both because any significant change is generally run by Wagner and because he's a difficult character to write