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Author Topic: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution  (Read 2244 times)

Judge Olde

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #15 on: 12 August, 2019, 12:44:49 am »
so glad to see the back of Emma Beeby's Anderson PSI Division - just boring and formulaic   

... Anderson hasn't had a decent run for years, coupled with the fact she 's drawn as a 30 year old, she now seems such a throw-away character, lacking any gravitas or connection to MC1 where she was an integral part of the system and bigger plot lines.


I've yet to see this weeks prog, but Anderson^^ you've hit the nail on the head. Although her looking as old as 30 would be great, she's looked a lot younger, even on the cover fairly recently. Even going back to Dark Justice, she looked far too young.

These stories for the most part could be any Judge, I'd rather see them rest the character & use her when they have a story that works for the character.

Richard

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #16 on: 12 August, 2019, 08:27:05 pm »
If Anderson was 20 when we first met her in prog 150, then she'd be 59 now.

Frank

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #17 on: 12 August, 2019, 08:36:25 pm »

That's not what's wrong with Anderson. She could look like the Queen Mum and the story would still skip like a DVD covered in jam fingerprints.



wedgeski

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #18 on: 13 August, 2019, 09:37:07 am »
I agree. Anderson's changeability is really getting on my nerves. She's as much a pillar of the Dreddverse as Dredd himself, and deserves a bit more editorial oversight IMO.

I'm not a big fan of the recent stories either I'm afraid to say, but I respect the author's attempts to do something interesting with her psi-powers.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #19 on: 13 August, 2019, 10:18:26 am »
If Anderson was 20 when we first met her in prog 150, then she'd be 59 now.

Does it not seem odd that Dredd would be the only key Justice Dept asset getting rejuve treatments?
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Dark Jimbo

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #20 on: 13 August, 2019, 10:24:33 am »
If Anderson was 20 when we first met her in prog 150, then she'd be 59 now.

Does it not seem odd that Dredd would be the only key Justice Dept asset getting rejuve treatments?

PSI Div personnel can't have rejuve; it would affect their psi abilities.

To be honest, that lore is a bit of a hamstring - if the strip ever explored what it's like for her to age at a normal rate as the rest of the Department stays young around her, it would be worth it. That would be fascinating, and help distinguish her strip a bit from the many other Dreddworld spin-offs. As it is, nobody's ever really touched on that, so you might as well find a magic sci-fi workaround and just give her a bloody rejuve to stop this endless grumbling each and every time she appears.

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #21 on: 13 August, 2019, 10:31:53 am »
As it is, nobody's ever really touched on that, so you might as well find a magic sci-fi workaround and just give her a bloody rejuve to stop this endless grumbling each and every time she appears.

Well, yes, that was kind of my point.
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Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #22 on: 13 August, 2019, 11:35:05 am »
This.  I could not get my head around what was going on this week - seemingly one panel contradicts what happened in the previous panel more than once - felt like it had been cut up and reassembled at times.  Maybe that's teh point and my too casual reading of the first episode or two means I ewas doomed to misread the whole thing, so I will give it another shot.

I didnt mind the art, other than it looked like it had been drawn "to size" rather than larger than it would see print.


That's not what's wrong with Anderson. She could look like the Queen Mum and the story would still skip like a DVD covered in jam fingerprints.

Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #23 on: 13 August, 2019, 03:47:45 pm »
SPOILERS for Anderson (wel, only if I'm reading it right, which I confess I could be way off)

Part 1  - Karyn is being trained to control her monster transforming that I recall has something to do with a John Smith Devlin/Dredd crossover from aaaaaaageeeeees ago?  Anderson is picking up one side of a psychic conversation about her failing and volunteering to go to the kook cubes, though Dredd also seems to be able to hear it/knows all about it.  Anderson and Flowers decide that they are going to stop her going where she wants to go, even though Flowers just let her go and was told Karyn wanted to go by Karyn herself, they both decide that she doesnt really want to  How they plan to stop the van and not get sent to Titan is not clear, nor why they put a little old lady in the van with the monster judge. A bigger monster attacks the van.

Part 2 - The monster runs off with Karyn - Anderson doesnt think the reason for the attack was Karyn, even though the monster ran off with Karyn.  Karyn is in a nice garden centre, where she will be safe, apparently, so not sure why Anderson thinks this was a random attack?

Part 3 - Anderson knows these monsters have been abducting people for a while, though how is not clear.  Theres a bit where they are looking at records, presumably of people abducted, but theres some weird talk of "wrongful arrest being optional"? then they find someone on the abducted list who was in an isocube, so must have escaped - they get him to tell them the way to the garden centre

Part 4 - Anderson is told by Shenker "You're (sic) haven't returned the one we lost to the psych facility" - release people in the psych facility who saw the monsters? Shenker knows they realy saw monsters but has them in the facility anyway? Flowers and Anderson have a conversation that I think is Flowers realising Cass's plan is to be taken by the monsters hersef so that PSI division will try to rescue her rather than Karyn? That's not a bad plan (well its a terrible plan, but a nice idea) - not sure why Anderson thnks Flowers would shoot her for it. Karyn is told the monsters are horrible, but bring people to the garden centre who need saving, but are terrible and scary and will hunt them, but cannot enter the garden centre, where they bring people.

Part 5 - a monster is in the Garden centre! Karyn tears it up and the weird lotus man takes her on a trip  - Anderson also appears to be tripping, but maybe all is to be revealed, as when she goes into astral form  she isnt chained up in a hellscape, but in a tiny room!

Part 6 - Anderson goes back into her body and is back in the hellscape. Karyn discovers that Theo, the guy showing her around is an ex (PSI?) Judge how has created a paradise for people shocked by Chaos Day and a hell for reasons. Flowers shows Shenker what has happened and he is sending in Dredd and some Mechanismos.  Shenker refers presumably to a previous story where he and Anderson had hesitated?   Dont recall that one.Andersons plan to go back in her body works because she went back in at the right angle? so she is in her own mind which is free from the hellscape, so also in the real world.  Theo is waiting

Part 7 - Theo is also still with Karyn who tells her that they can protect themselves with more than illusions. Flashback adn Theo is a bad boy PSI judge who is not kicked out for a prank despite seemingly also pranking the disciplinary board? erm.  this totally lost me.  Anderson punches the real Theo, causing the illuson one with Karyn to disappear? though they are really next to each other?  Anderson pleads with Karyn who sides with Theo, but theos disciples shoot Karyn, or maybe shoot at Anderson? Karyn swats them but runs off with Theo

Part 8 - Theo tells Karyn she has to defend them from the Judges as the only way to be free. Anderson, who seems to have been forgotten about, captures a disciple, tells Karyn hshe is taking her in - then Dredd attacks an illusion of Karyn to show Karyn that the Judges are her enemies (another decent plot point), but then Theo says he is  the sacrifice (he is going to give himself up?) and gets hit by a green blast that "ufffs" him.  But Karyn sentences everyone as if this was always the plan? Or maybe Anerson is making this up on teh fly so Dredd doesnt shoot the real Karyn?

yeah, i'm lost.  Couple of decent ideas, but I couldn't follow motivation or action from panel to panel




Dark Jimbo

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #24 on: 13 August, 2019, 04:04:54 pm »
Part 1  - Karyn is being trained to control her monster transforming that I recall has something to do with a John Smith Devlin/Dredd crossover from aaaaaaageeeeees ago?

The body-hopping vampyr was introduced in 2001 in a nice, snappy one-and-done by Rennie/Irving. It ends the story as a sort of troggie King, down in the Undercity.

In 2005 Dredd and Karyn descended into the Undercity courtesy of Rennie/Cook in the wake of the Total War bombing campaign to rescue some missing cits, and the upshot was that Karyn locked the fiend inside herself to take it out of commission.

Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #25 on: 13 August, 2019, 04:16:10 pm »
Cheers Jimbo

Having digested it, Theo Ward is a PSI Judge who following Chaos Day decides to use his illusion powers to set up a paradise where citizens can escape the grim reality of what the City has become.

he sends monsters out to capture people (these dont appear to be illusions, but arent mentioned at the conclusion) and has taken Karyn to act as protector to his illusionary paradise, playing on her treatment by Justice Dept to get her on side. This is becasue he believes he is goinng to be a martyr?  The Judges are going to get him?

All that makes sense, but that's as much as I can get out of it - why does he think he will be a martyr? What are the monsters and where do they go?  What was Theo hoping to acheive?  For a moment I thought the whoe thing was a set up as a test for Karyn, but that doesnt work either. Why is Dredd happy to disobey orders upon seeing the real Karyn, havig just butchered an illusory one? How does re-entering your body from an astral state at the right angle affect the illusions your mind is subject to? Are the Judges holding people in the kook cubes who have seen monsters that the Dept know are real? 



Part 1  - Karyn is being trained to control her monster transforming that I recall has something to do with a John Smith Devlin/Dredd crossover from aaaaaaageeeeees ago?

The body-hopping vampyr was introduced in 2001 in a nice, snappy one-and-done by Rennie/Irving. It ends the story as a sort of troggie King, down in the Undercity.

In 2005 Dredd and Karyn descended into the Undercity courtesy of Rennie/Cook in the wake of the Total War bombing campaign to rescue some missing cits, and the upshot was that Karyn locked the fiend inside herself to take it out of commission.

Jacqusie

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #26 on: 13 August, 2019, 06:19:12 pm »
Anderson's changeability is really getting on my nerves. She's as much a pillar of the Dreddverse as Dredd himself, and deserves a bit more editorial oversight IMO.


I might get shot down in flames for this, but I wholeheartedly agree, the character needs someone Editorially to get hold of her continuity and plotting and enable some credibility back to Anderson. The previous use of Dowling on art duties worked really well, she just needs a decent script to bring her back into MC1 and maybe a nice day out or two with Dredd to get the old team back together...  :)


Frank

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #27 on: 14 August, 2019, 09:50:03 am »



All the other wee boys thought Vyvyan was the best Young One, but I worshipped Rik. Good to know Kek-W felt the same.


Judge Sam

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Looking forward to many more Rob Williams Dredd stories in future.


There was absolutely nothing wrong with Thistlebone, but it was paced like a TV show rather than a comic. Pat Mills doesn't write comics like eighties Nemesis or Slaine anymore, but anyone who has read that combination of super-condensed ideas and exciting action and doesn't see that this is something to which the comic form is uniquely suited needs a brick through their window.

Appropriating forms from other media is something Comics are also good at, but if I wanted to watch an episode of Midsomer Murders I'd probably do that rather than seek out the comic version. Eglinton's interviews suggest he did enough research to pack 3000 years of paganism into ten parts. The only reason not to do so is, presumably, an Alan Partridge desire for a second series.

The trajectory of all long-running 2000ad strips demonstrates that this kind of concentration of incident and ideas isn't sustainable beyond a few books, but I could live with not reading The Thistlebone Who Laughs or Ultimate Thistlebone in 30 years time. Davis's art has been incredible throughout - a real shame we seem to have lost him from comics, hopefully not permanently or for too long.

I can't recommend the BBC's Thatcher retrospective more highly. Works as nostalgia, even if you're not into the politics of the time as much as Kek-W.






broodblik

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #28 on: 14 August, 2019, 02:28:45 pm »
A very good prog

Great to have Jaegir back. My only gripe is that this will mostly run for only 6 episodes and then we have to wait again.

Dredd by Williams and Weston is just awesome. What a last page.

Thistlebone wraps up with an interesting ending. This series will read at its best in a collection. Still highly enjoyable.

Anderson ends, although it was not that bad it still feels like it is missing something.


Frank

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Re: Prog 2144 War Crimes and Retribution
« Reply #29 on: 14 August, 2019, 08:07:51 pm »