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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 1249389 times)

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17010 on: Today at 04:44:36 PM »
Sometimes I wonder whether Americans are close to North Korean in terms of indoctrination.  There seems to be this idea that everyone in the world wants to be like them.  Unaffordable healthcare; school shootings; constant war; institutionalised racism; policies decided by people who don't believe in dinosaurs; a petulant baby as a president: no thanks.

That said, it should be remembered that the majority of Americans voted against Trump.
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Funt Solo

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17011 on: Today at 05:15:34 PM »
That said, it should be remembered that the majority of Americans voted against Trump.

That's SO important!

I live in Washington state, which is true blue (that's Democrat). In effect that means that the big cities (like Seattle) are more left-leaning and the countryside is more right-leaning, but there are fewer of them.

Our state governor, Jay Inslee, calls a lot of the shots (which has been good for us during the pandemic). It's like we're a little mini-country. Like Washington (State) is to the USA what Scotland is to the UK. Sort of thing.

We still have bastards around - don't get me wrong. There's evil people that stand outside the abortion clinic accusing patients and doctors of murder. There are people who use derogatory names for latinx folk. People who call Native Americans dirty alcoholics. But there's more people that don't.

If all I knew of the US was what I saw on the news (which is mostly Trump being a knob) I'd never live here in a million years.

But would I live in the UK? Unaffordable housing; dreams of Empire; institutionalized racism; constant war fueled by its own arms sales; policies decided by people who believe in herd immunity; a spoilt bully as a prime minister, a seneschal who tests his eyesight by going driving, a country-wide social caste system, state-driven belief in an ancient sky-god cult from the Middle East, a hereditary monarchy that effectively perpetuates a state of serfdom...
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Robin Low

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17012 on: Today at 05:55:05 PM »
But would I live in the UK? Unaffordable housing; dreams of Empire; institutionalized racism; constant war fueled by its own arms sales; policies decided by people who believe in herd immunity; a spoilt bully as a prime minister, a seneschal who tests his eyesight by going driving, a country-wide social caste system, state-driven belief in an ancient sky-god cult from the Middle East, a hereditary monarchy that effectively perpetuates a state of serfdom...

2000AD and the NHS.

We win  ;)

Regards,

Robin

TordelBack

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17013 on: Today at 05:56:35 PM »
I think this is almost a universal truth, States and their people are different things. So many of my favourite creatives, intellectuals, entertainers, comedians and commentators are Americans; all the Americans I know personally are eloquent and informed, those I met in passing in the States generous and helpful. Historically the US set a standard for secular republican governance, funded the Irish independence movement and  bankrolled our nascent state, saved us from Hitler and brokered a genuinely inconceivable peace on our island. 

In many ways the US's words and actions as a state since 2001, even including the Obama years, have broken my heart precisely because they don't seem to reflect what I know of Americans.  And Trump is the steaming shit on top of that pile of dissonance.

As for your UK strawman yeah,  pretty much that.   ;)

Funt Solo

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17014 on: Today at 06:24:51 PM »
2000AD and the NHS.

We win  ;)

Gah! You DO win. (I try to make myself feel better about the health care debacle over here in the US by leaning on cheaper house and petrol prices, but it's weak sauce consolation placed next to a national healthcare system. There is no way of arguing the 2000AD point - it's the galaxy's greatest comic.)

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The idea that Trump is the worst thing since sliced bread (and he is demonstrably just an incredibly horrific individual held up by a mean-spirited base) is somewhat diminished if you watch the documentary series The Vietnam War.

It's difficult to pinpoint the worst of the behavior, but there you had an absolutely cynical sequence of presidents who knew full well they were doing the wrong thing, but kept doing it in order to remain in power. And the wrong thing just happened to include things like deliberately fire-bombing civilians and shooting unarmed college students: and then defending those actions.

Which only brings us back to Tordelback's point that "states and their people are different things" (but with a side dish of it has ever been this way).
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TordelBack

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17015 on: Today at 06:44:32 PM »


The idea that Trump is the worst thing since sliced bread (and he is demonstrably just an incredibly horrific individual held up by a mean-spirited base) is somewhat diminished if you watch the documentary series The Vietnam War.

Oh hey,  I'm under no illusions about US foreign policy throughout its history (as a teen I suckled at the teat of Chomsky), and how it has treated its own people, but in the 21st C the facade of its aspiration to global freedom and international betterment, that even in its cynical superficiality served as a kind of standard that base actions could be judged against, just fell away.

Torture was okay,  assassination was a valid strategy, blatant lying to create cassus belli was fine, wars of religion were back on the table... It had always done these things, everyone knew it, but always with a sense of shame and denial, that it should be better than that.

Now, instead of a republic that was struggling towards noble ideals, but always dragged down by dirty money, deep-rooted oligarchy, dishonest hawks, gun nuts and ignorant zealots, it suddenly seemed to accept that all it was was the sum of those terrible things. And that that was fine.


« Last Edit: Today at 06:48:23 PM by TordelBack »

Funt Solo

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #17016 on: Today at 10:29:19 PM »
That's really an interesting point. Like they've stopped pretending.

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In the news today, Trumpet responds to Twitter labeling his bullshit as bullshit by threatening to shut them down. Sometimes the idea of free speech in the U.S. means the freedom to shout "fire" in a crowded theater. (Or "drink bleach" at a crowded press conference.) And, apparently, also the freedom to threaten to shut down the media's right to free speech.

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Just in case anyone forgot about it - I feel it's my duty to remind you all that Dominic Cummings told everyone the other day that his trip to a scenic beauty spot on his wife's birthday, in which they sat on a riverbank in the glorious sunshine, was just a test drive to see if his headache and temporary blindness were getting any better. And then the prime minister told everyone that was fine and it was time to move on.
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