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Author Topic: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.  (Read 29761 times)

shaolin_monkey

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #765 on: 18 May, 2020, 09:41:07 AM »
A scathing write-up in the British Medical Journal:

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1932

It's incredibly damning.

Yes.  We're already aware of the timeline of inaction and ineptitude from our government.  This amplifies it.

The whole thing reads as a list of utter failures to act, starting years before the virus even appeared. 

The final paragraphs, as well as laying out what is actually required, clearly show disdain and distrust for our current government.

Quote
In time, findings from the first population surveillance study will help effective targeting.25 Meaningless political soundbites promising to recruit 18 000 contact tracers, test 200 000 people a day, or invest in unjustified contact tracing apps, divert focus and could lead to more deaths.26 These headline grabbing schemes should be replaced by locality led strategies rooted in communicable disease control.

An effective pandemic response requires not only speed and clarity but also a willingness to accept mistakes and a commitment to international cooperation. Sharing the science and the uncertainties that inform political decisions will help rebuild lost public trust. Politicians and their advisers cannot hide behind science to avoid responsibility for making difficult decisions in a global crisis or merely repeat that they are following the science.

Above all, the response to covid-19 is not about flattening epidemic curves, modelling, or epidemiology. It is about protecting lives and communities most obviously at risk in our unequal society. The most serious public health crisis of our times requires a strong and credible public health community at the heart of its response. A UK government that prioritises the health and wellbeing of the public will see the importance of rebuilding the disempowered and fragmented infrastructures of its public health system.

Anything less is an insult to the tens of thousands of people who have lost their lives in a pandemic for which the UK was forewarned but not forearmed.

« Last Edit: 18 May, 2020, 09:48:49 AM by shaolin_monkey »

IndigoPrime

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #766 on: 18 May, 2020, 01:30:33 PM »
Well, my wife finally got her phone call from the NHS. She hasn’t yet received a letter. She asked why she was on the list. The person on the other end didn’t know. Kay noted our surgery didn’t either. So the NHS removed her from the list without knowing anything about her medical history.

I am fucking furious. Said person noted that we should now get in touch with our GP, so he can comb through her records and request to be added back to said list. Surely, that should have been the bloody reverse of this? I am so sick of this county right now.

Tjm86

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #767 on: 20 May, 2020, 07:22:21 AM »
You know, as terrifying as the pandemic is, I can't help being more terrified by the attitude of Trump to this situation.  Leaving aside his allegedly sarcastic "have we tried injecting disinfectant" in the utterly inappropriate daily briefing setting, he now sees the US situation as a "badge of honour"!   :o

So the massive number of cases is down to the skills of testers in the states?  Nothing to do with actions that are allowing the virus to circulate so freely?  What is the massive number of deaths in the states down to?  The ability of Americans to let the virus kill them so efficiently?  "You know, Americans are so much better than other nationalities at letting this virus finish their lives.  It's a beautiful thing, a beautiful thing.  So many corpses.  No other nation in the world has so many corpses.  Let's Make America Dead Again ..."

He's debating whether or not to close his country to travellers from Brazil?  The rest of the world needs to be closing their borders to travellers from the US.  Sorry to fellow boarders who reside in that once-fine nation but with the head-banger you have in charge right now and some of his fellow travellers on the Road to Hell perhaps it is time to think infection vectors.

Anyone who is even remotely optimistic about a possible international solution to the Global Climate Crisis surely needs to reflect on what he and his government are doing.  Oh, and here in the UK we need to be thinking about how closely aligned our "government" wants to be with this man.

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

sheridan

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #768 on: 20 May, 2020, 09:39:59 AM »
You know, as terrifying as the pandemic is, I can't help being more terrified by the attitude of Trump to this situation.  Leaving aside his allegedly sarcastic "have we tried injecting disinfectant" in the utterly inappropriate daily briefing setting, he now sees the US situation as a "badge of honour"!   :o

That wasn't sarcastic - he meant it.  He only said it was sarcasm when he got called up on it.  This was only a week or so ago - don't fall for the 'new narrative'.


TordelBack

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #769 on: 20 May, 2020, 12:06:31 PM »
The rest of the world needs to be closing their borders to travellers from the US.  Sorry to fellow boarders who reside in that once-fine nation but with the head-banger you have in charge right now and some of his fellow travellers on the Road to Hell perhaps it is time to think infection vectors.

While agreeing with your thoughts on Trump, if we're going to accept (even vaguely, which we probably shouldn't) the stated numbers of US and UK deaths per capita, then it would be UK travellers that should be excluded from the US.  Allowing for differences in rates of testing per capita, the total UK and US *infection rates* are on almost on a par, but looking the harder numbers of deaths per capita the UK's are much worse - almost twice as many (520 per million versus 277 per million).

I accept all the usual caveats about what is recorded as a C-19 death and what is not (for example, Ireland fares far worse than the US in those figures, but our testing numbers are good and we count everything and our numbers accord closely with excess recorded deaths against a 5 year average, so I'd trust those), but I'd still advise against condemning the US response from a position in the UK.

Given as it seems most social distancing has ended here this week (who knew that 'open the garden centres' was code for 'let your kids gather in large groups and hang out of each other'?), we'll not be long catching up.  If I read one more social-media post stating that our 'new infections' is the now the same as when as when lockdown started, so therefore lockdown should end, I'm going to go full futsie and bludgeon the next gang of pricks folicking outside my house.

It's a stomm-show all over.

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&deathsMetric=true&totalFreq=true&perCapita=true&smoothing=0&country=USA+GBR+CAN+BRA+AUS+IND+ESP+DEU+FRA+IRL
« Last Edit: 20 May, 2020, 12:12:04 PM by TordelBack »

Tjm86

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #770 on: 20 May, 2020, 01:32:39 PM »
...  then it would be UK travellers that should be excluded from the US.

Fair point.  Then again, watching what has been happening in the US over the last few years I don't feel even the remotest desire to travel to that country.  And I'm saying that as the grandchild of a citizen.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #771 on: 20 May, 2020, 01:36:11 PM »
Well, mini-IP’s infant school has presented its plan to parents for reopening on 1 June. It’s all quite grim, but fortunately erring on the side of safety. The government of course wants all R and 1 students back full-time. That would be basically impossible in our kid’s school (which has three streams of R, 1 and 2). So they’ve decided Year R only. Then they’ve split them in half — one lot do Mon/Tue and the others Thu/Fri, with a “deep clean” on Wednesday. Within those groups, they’re split into classes, with staggered arrival and leaving times.

Parents will have to drop off children while adhering to 2m distancing and using a one-way system. In school, children will be limited to bringing in a light jacked, snack and drink. Nothing else will be allowed. Food will be ‘picnic’ lunches only, and served outside or in a classroom if it is raining. There will be no communal activities, no soft play/soft toys, and activities will be primarily desk-based, with children ideally mixing in groups of three, which they will stick to for the foreseeable.

I don’t know about you, but this strikes me as a pretty miserable state for 5-year-olds. And yet I’m actually quite proud of my kid’s school for doing their best after being dealt a horribly shitty hand by the government. (And on the basis of this plan, I can’t imagine mini-IP — who’s older — will be heading back any time soon.)

TordelBack

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #772 on: 20 May, 2020, 02:58:08 PM »
That's really very impressive.  Horrifying, but impressive. So horrifying that you wonder what the educational benefit of subjecting kids to that regime might be.  And at only two days a week, even the economic benefits (the important bit) seem marginal too. I'm as tired as the next person of having to function as a teacher in a dozen subjects as well as do my actual job, declining French irregular verbs in l'Imparfait never my forté and so forth, but even still...

And just now watching kids of that age rolling about on the green patch at the end of our estate in giant viral-conducive rucks, it all seems rather pointless.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #773 on: 20 May, 2020, 03:58:49 PM »
My guess is the thinking has a lot to do with formative years — ensuring kids have the basics they’ll need growing up. But even that showcases a fundamental flaw at the heart of the British educational system, given that in, say, Finland, full formal education starts as late as seven — and Finnish kids on average end up smarter, happier, and better adjusted than British kids.

moly

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #774 on: 21 May, 2020, 08:40:27 AM »
I thought kids should go back as soon as they can for education not baby sitting, but with only around a month before the summer holidays it seems pointless, they aren't going to catch up on the last three months lost learning in that time

TordelBack

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #775 on: 21 May, 2020, 09:09:57 AM »
Can't speak for other jurisdictions, but effectively ALL the calls for it here are about free childcare (unlikely to be listened to) . Which motivation I really do understand, as I face into a day of troubleshooting time-lapse photography of sprouting radishes, '-y' plurals and isometric drawings of birdboxes in the kitchen, while my wife has a full day on zoom in the living  room and I try to finish and invoice two reports by tomorrow from my shed,  but I do hate to see it dressed up as concern about education.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #776 on: 21 May, 2020, 10:40:24 AM »
There is an element of freeing up parent time, and that in itself is not a bad thing. If schools are not open, at least one parent needs to stay home with the child(ren). That burden tends to fall more heavily on women, and becomes increasingly problematic in homes towards the working class end of the spectrum (where working from home is less likely) and in single-parent households of any stripe.

Elsewhere, we have exciting medical news. Mrs IP phoned the surgery. She’d been erroneously added by our GP, because he thought she was regularly taking a drug she sporadically takes. On that basis, she would have been at “high risk”, whereas now she’s merely at “moderate risk”. Which is still not great. And I’m still annoyed that she was removed from the list unilaterally. Only there’s a twist in the tale.

It turns out, the calls regarding the local list are not made by the NHS, nor anyone actually qualified, and have instead been assigned to a community support group. Taking the burden off of the NHS is a good thing — I’m all for that. But not erring on the side of caution is not.

Dandontdare

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #777 on: 21 May, 2020, 01:18:57 PM »
Well, my wife finally got her phone call from the NHS. She hasn’t yet received a letter. She asked why she was on the list. The person on the other end didn’t know. Kay noted our surgery didn’t either. So the NHS removed her from the list without knowing anything about her medical history.

I am fucking furious. Said person noted that we should now get in touch with our GP, so he can comb through her records and request to be added back to said list. Surely, that should have been the bloody reverse of this? I am so sick of this county right now.

Apologies if I'm missing something - she was taken off the list because you raised problems with her being on the list in the first place? I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve there.
« Last Edit: 21 May, 2020, 01:21:21 PM by Dandontdare »

IndigoPrime

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #778 on: 21 May, 2020, 02:05:54 PM »
No. The course of events was:

- Mrs IP — who has a complicated medical history and multiple severe allergies — gets a series of frankly terrifying text messages, which basically recommend she immediately isolates, even from her own family. (With very few exceptions, the recommendations are as per someone who already has coronavirus — separate bathrooms; no going within several metres of even family members; etc.)
- One text then helpfully notes a letter will rock up, although it persists in its absence
- My wife calls the GP surgery, who are unsure why she’s on the list, and suggest the calls are a hoax; they note that she can schedule something with a GP in the future if necessary, but they’re very busy, and so on
- After a couple of weeks, we get a call from the ‘NHS’ (I later learn this has in fact all been outsourced to a local community group of volunteers)
- During the call, my wife notes she’s not sure precisely why she’s on the list, but notes her complex medical history, at which point the person on the other end of the line immediately and unilaterally removes her from the list and ends the call
- My wife manages to speak to our GP, who — fortunately — decides he put her on the list in error, purely due to the frequency in which a specific medication she uses is taken

We weren’t “trying to achieve” anything. We were furious that someone — as it turns out, with no medical training — removed my wife from a high-risk list with no regard whatsoever to medical history, nor having any information as to why she was on the list in the first place. That seems appallingly reckless to me. Fortunately, she’s ‘only’ moderately at risk (the second tier) rather than high risk (the first tier), but this whole episode again showcases the way in which this country is winging it, without due care to those who are supposed to be protected.

The Doctor Alt 8

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Re: Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.
« Reply #779 on: 21 May, 2020, 02:10:09 PM »


I can't add anything to this discussion. Our government bleeped up and is still bleeping up... partly because this country in my opinion simply cannot afford to be shut down any longer....

However on a personal note... My mother has a number of serious health conditions including Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, one working lung, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, skin infections on her legs and movement so restricted she is housebound without the use of a mobility scooter. So needless to say with all the above listed conditions she is at the highest risk of contracting Corvid 19. However, despite filling in a form over 3 weeks ago at the relevant government website listing her as extremely vulnerable. We have yet to receive any advice on how to self isolate and the special measures I should take in order to prevent my mother from becoming infected. We haven’t even had anyone approach us to ask if we required any kind of help.
In contrast two friends of mine who also fall into the extremely vulnerable category received information leaflets within days of the Corvid 19 lockdown was announced. Had we not been paying attention and my mother being housebound we might not have realized that she should self isolate. (Lucky neither of us are idiots) I only found out about the other special measures by having the leaflet read out to me over the phone by one of my friends.

I am now considering writing to my MP. Not being at least asked if we needed assistance is not acceptable. No wonder when I have applied for attendance allowance to help us financially my applications have been refused on the basis that she doesn't need help. Mother is a damned fall risk and I have to call for ambulance staff because she is too large for me to pick her up by myself. (Adrian said he could get her back up on his own..but I don't think he would be able to without him hurting himself so I wouldn't ask him for assistance)

We can't even afford one of those alarms because the monthly fee is £18 plus the telephone landline charges. I know it's probably too late for us to get assistance... but I want to try and make sure that should there be a second wave or even another disease (I don't think that this will be the last pandemic we face until the root cause of this virus is tackled... and that's going to be hard for a number of reasons) That my mother will get the support she needs.
« Last Edit: 21 May, 2020, 02:12:00 PM by The Doctor Alt 8 »