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Author Topic: That Twitter thread… You know the one  (Read 2183 times)

Funt Solo

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #105 on: 26 November, 2020, 08:52:16 PM »
++ map ++ thrills ++ coma ++

TordelBack

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #106 on: 26 November, 2020, 10:37:04 PM »
Once again, I'm sorry for any offence caused by bringing it to the attention of Galifrey Base. I didn't know (and still don't) how to blank the images in question.

You did nothing wrong lad. In the Old Days maybe we harboured illusions, but cross-posting between different public forums is the lifeblood of Web 2-point-Bleurgh. It's only an issue if something was intended to be private, an email or DM, say - we all know now that we are spewing into the luminiferous aether, eternal and infinite.

TordelBack

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #107 on: 26 November, 2020, 10:40:08 PM »
On balance, I rate this topic split THREE VCS OUT OF FIVE

We thank you for your service.
Or SUCK IT UP,  WORM! 
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Jim_Campbell

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #108 on: 26 November, 2020, 10:56:07 PM »
Hey, why not? The forum's already regularly scanned for titbits by a certain Facebook locale.

Screenshot Wullie. It’s been his MO for years.
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credo

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #109 on: 27 November, 2020, 10:43:54 AM »
The thing that gets me about Mills' selective interpretation of the rights of the creator (well one of the many things that get me), is that it seems entirely at odds with his oft-espoused very far left, anti-authoritarian politics.

You don't get to write Slaine (and Finn and post-Black Hole ABC Warriors) as mouthpieces for your political bent, venting about man trying to own everything and how we should all leave aside this petty need for control and submit to the Earth Goddess/Gaia/Heckate/Mars, then say "these toys are all mine and no-one else gets to play with them!" It makes him myopic at best and downright hypocritical at worst.

I know there are stories where Mills' authorial voice is so strong that no-one else could possibly continue them, but there are plenty of cases where his authorial voice has long been the problem, undermining otherwise excellent characters and settings (ABC Warriors would be, for me, the shining example here).

IndigoPrime

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #110 on: 27 November, 2020, 10:52:13 AM »
The issue for me is when a writer crosses a line from being subversive to being preachy. Mills at his best upends conventions, is disruptive, and has a cutting satire to his work. But too many more recent series have tended towards blog post rants as strips. Sláine was particularly baffling with that ALL CAPS shouting match—not least after the lovely set-up to Brutania.

TordelBack

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #111 on: 27 November, 2020, 11:36:38 AM »
You don't get to write Slaine (and Finn and post-Black Hole ABC Warriors) as mouthpieces for your political bent [...] then say "these toys are all mine and no-one else gets to play with them!" It makes him myopic at best and downright hypocritical at worst.

Really can't agree with this. Whatever way Mills' views and researches find expression in his fiction can't be used to hold him to account in real life. I doubt, for one unfairly cherry-picked example, that Pat really thinks a dwarf benefits from a good daily beating. He has plenty of non-fiction comment and writing that are fair game for this type of accusation of hypocrisy, sometimes within the same page! (As do most of us, in line with Cardinal Richlieu).

Similarly,  that his fiction work shaped my early political and philosophical worldview is my fault for taking my information from comics, not his.

shaolin_monkey

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #112 on: 27 November, 2020, 01:09:21 PM »
The thing that gets me about Mills' selective interpretation of the rights of the creator (well one of the many things that get me), is that it seems entirely at odds with his oft-espoused very far left, anti-authoritarian politics.

You don't get to write Slaine (and Finn and post-Black Hole ABC Warriors) as mouthpieces for your political bent, venting about man trying to own everything and how we should all leave aside this petty need for control and submit to the Earth Goddess/Gaia/Heckate/Mars, then say "these toys are all mine and no-one else gets to play with them!" It makes him myopic at best and downright hypocritical at worst.

I get where you’re coming from, but artists and creators are stuck in a capitalistic society just trying to get by like everyone else. In a perfect world we’d live in a society that shares every resource anyone could need, where folk get all the food and shelter they require, all the education, healthcare etc, including art and literature, where things are fair and equitable and maybe money is just not required.

But we don’t, sadly, and those that would prefer us to achieve that kind of society still have to scrabble about in the dirt like the rest of us, trying to make ends meet.

It’s kind of like pointing out the hypocrisy of environmental protestors who wear nylon made from oil, or mobile phones made with precious metals strip-mined at great cost to life and landscape - they’d prefer not to have to exist in this dying world, but are forced to while they push for something better.

Wanting to change society for the better shouldn’t excluded you from participating in society as it stands. Know what I mean?

CalHab

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #113 on: 27 November, 2020, 01:37:21 PM »

Funt Solo

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #114 on: 27 November, 2020, 04:52:24 PM »
Hey, why not? The forum's already regularly scanned for titbits by a certain Facebook locale.

Screenshot Wullie. It’s been his MO for years.

Careful - it seems like mentioning Lord Wuldermort by name causes disturbances in the Narciverse. Apparently, it's all Rennie's fault? Probably best just to un-ban Frullie - the temper tantrum's lasted almost an entire year now.
++ map ++ thrills ++ coma ++

IndigoPrime

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #115 on: 27 November, 2020, 05:28:27 PM »
I recall at a recent general election (2015?), The Green Party went off on one about copyright. Their cunning plan was to broadly eradicate it, because in their utopia, this would mean everyone could benefit. When I challenged Green members about this, I was told that creative people should just create new things rather than relying on earning from old ones forever. I was, to put it mildly, unimpressed. (Caroline Lucas, to her credit, actually listened. She convened a meeting of creatives in Brighton who explained why the then Green policy was shit, and it did subsequently change.)

All of which is to say you can be left-wing and liberal and still want to retain ownership over things you create, and to make a living from them. I would never, ever argue Mills doesn’t have that right. Where things become more problematic is when his arguments about creator rights are inconsistently applied (e.g. with Accident Man) and, to some (albeit not much) extent, when he’s happy writing other people’s characters but fumes when anything at all is done with even his minor players.

In short, I’m happy with more Strontium Dog appearing in the Prog, on the basis Wagner’s okayed it. I wouldn’t be thrilled if someone else wrote Sláine expressly against Mills’s wishes. (The John Smith stuff is, of course, in the former camp, on the basis of his Facebook posts, although how the destination was reached remains unfortunate.)

Leigh S

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #116 on: 27 November, 2020, 06:11:02 PM »
Is this a merged thread?  If so, dont forget the Forthcoming Thrills 2020 bit!

IndigoPrime

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #117 on: 27 November, 2020, 07:52:06 PM »
This is a split thread, not a merged one.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #118 on: 27 November, 2020, 08:20:19 PM »
Good call from the mods there.  It really wasn't a thread about forthcoming thrills any more.
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Leigh S

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Re: That Twitter thread… You know the one
« Reply #119 on: 27 November, 2020, 08:33:23 PM »
This is a split thread, not a merged one.

Makes sense - the only thing I was highlighting in the 2020 thread pertinent to this discussion I can sum up in two points:

Firstly, Pat used to rightly believe that comics were tilted off course by the intervention of a tiny group of fanatics - that he is engaged in some kind of feedback loop of self confirmation with such people strikes me as a little sad.

Secondly, While I agree with him about Creator Rights and the fact I don't want to see anyone else working on his creations once he goes, his recent "revelations" about John Sanders 1988 offer to consider setting up a more equitable system soured me on the whole affair - looked to me like there was an opening door that Pat was aware of and did nothing about. I'll be first in the queue for Sanders upcoming book

to quote myself:

Sanders note is a generic "we can accommodate the concerns, but comics publishing isn't book publishing, and if they want to run it along different lines we can, but they have to understand once they pay out for the infrastructure we provide, there wont be as much left on the table as they think"

He then mentions Alan in the final paragraph, but its clear the offer extends beyond him.

Full memo here

https://www.millsverse.com/mr-mills-exceedingly-good-cakes/

Tell me that isnt Sanders offering creators some form of what Pat is after. Note the offer is clearly aimed at multiple creators (unless Alan Moore would be at his own throat!)
« Last Edit: 27 November, 2020, 08:36:29 PM by Leigh S »