The Political Thread

[Professor Bear]

The change is welcome, but I feel it might be even more so if lessons had been learned in the process.

[Theblazeuk]

What is the quote from Zen?

[ZenArcade]

Oh, it's an old piece of Irish doggerel  which encapsulates existence in a poor small town ireland. Or I suppose in many other places. Z

[Richmond Clements]

UKIP hypocrisy of today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30486154

Mr Helmer, head of the party's delegation in Europe, added that this was a way of "liberating money" that would otherwise have gone to pro-European parties.

How selfless of them - I look forward to seeing this money handed directly to the exchequer.

Roger Helmer, MEP, lest we forget: http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/10/12/ukips-roger-helmer-who-claimed-gays-undermine-marriage-calls-for-privacy-after-visit-to-alleged-brothel/

[Jim_Campbell]

Roger Helmer, MEP

A man so repellant that I voted Conservative to keep the homophobic bigot out of Westminster.

That was a strange day, I can tell you.

Cheers

Jim

[Old Tankie]

It was a strange day when I didn't vote for them!!!

[The Legendary Shark]

Helmer, Himmler, Hitler, Hess - heck!

[Theblazeuk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

The difference in ideology between the US 'sovereign citizens' and oh, someone we might know who takes a similar stance on 'common law' (might be shark shaped, might just be mythical) is a funny one.

Anyway - was just interesting! Nothing too deep.

[Dandontdare]

that's a fascinating read - I particularly liked this one example:

In a criminal case in 2013, the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington noted:
Defendant [Kenneth Wayne Leaming] is apparently a member of a group loosely styled "sovereign citizens." The Court has deduced this from a number of Defendant's peculiar habits. First, like Mr. Leaming, sovereign citizens are fascinated by capitalization. They appear to believe that capitalizing names has some sort of legal effect. .....The Court therefore feels some measure of responsibility to inform Defendant that all the fancy legal-sounding things he has read on the internet are make-believe......On May 24, 2013, Leaming was sentenced to eight years in federal prison.[35]

[The Legendary Shark]

I admit that I have taken some ideas from "movements" like this and the "Freemen on the Land" but mostly I disagree with their overall approach. I am not against the government or legal systems as these movements tend to be. My personal belief is that our systems need to be rescued from untoward interference.
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In particular, I find ideas such as having ones' name presented in ALL CAPITALS on official letters renders the letter unlawful because its actually addressed to ones' birth certificate to be foolish. Also, I find the arguments about language (birth = berth and court dock = ship's dock, for example) to be interesting but tenuous.
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On the other hand, for reasons I've explained before, I have a lot of time for the idea that legislation is a lesser form of law than statute, case, common or natural law.
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I do firmly believe in the rights and responsibilities of the individual and find that these movements tend to focus mainly on the rights and ignore, or downplay, the responsibilities of the individual. Many people also try to use these ideas to make money - which is, to my mind, unacceptable.
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I am not a member of any group like these but I do find some of their ideas valid and worthy of development. (And I admit to having been beguiled by them in the past, before I started trying to figure things out for myself. Indeed, some of these ideas have stayed with me but many have fallen away. I don't have all the answers or even a comprehensive understanding of all the issues - despite my often robust diatribes - and my opinions and approach continue to evolve.)
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The core of my approach is the question of whether the System is the ruler of the individual, the servant of the individual or the partner of the individual. I think the answer is the latter but many, many others disagree with me.
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The parts of the system I oppose are those which, for whatever reason, act tyranically. As Mahatma Gandhi said, "The only tyrant I accept in this world is the still voice within."

[Richmond Clements]

If you and your mates were going out for a Chinese, what do you say you're going for?

Still think Nige isn't a flithy racist?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/12/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-candidates-racist-remark

[Professor Bear]

For some reason, that article makes me think of years ago - before their creative renaissance - when Marvel's Captain America book was full of stories where he'd fight white supremacists, only the baddies could never use actual racist slurs so they said things like "people of colour" like it wasn't just a descriptive term.  I remember thinking "they're not even trying here - this might be good enough for a child or someone who's mentally subnormal, but really, these are some very unconvincing racists."

[Theblazeuk]

Wow. Most people just say "Fancy chinese?" though I do have some friends who might say the other thing. But only maybe not as a universal use. And they are not running for office anywhere.

[JamesC]

Nobody says that anymore, you just say you're having a chinese takeaway or whatever.

[Old Tankie]

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you, Richmond?  If you're 40+, in the past have you never used a derogatory term to describe someone?  I'm 57 and grew up on the East London/South Essex border and I can certainly remember using terms as a younger man that I wouldn't use now.  Haven't you?

We live in a far better society now and I'm ashamed when I think of some of the things that I used to say as a young man.  Of course, I could pretend that I didn't say them but I'd be lying.